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mellowsong
04-16-11, 01:04 PM
You can find recipes on the web but they all call for using an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner which requires you to watch it constantly because the timer only goes to 2 minutes. I don't have time or energy to baby sit a machine. In talking to a friend online about this, she told me she belonged to a group where someone proved a stick (immersion) blender gave the same results as the machine and requires very little effort. I have used this method to make liposomal glutathione and after less than a week, I do feel a difference. FYI: I accidentally bought buffered vitamin C powder and it will NOT go into a liposomal state. It looks OK for a little while, then separates. I even tried mixing it for 6 minutes but although not quite as bad, it still didn't all stay mixed in. Make sure you buy pure ascorbic acid powder..

With this method you get about 75% encapsulation vs 90% on the store bought stuff. Basically take a little more and you are still saving huge amounts of money.
This makes about 14 oz of product.
Vitamin C
3 level tablespoons of soy lecithin (45cc). Make sure it is GMO free and organic if possible.
1 level tablespoon ascorbic acid powder (15cc)

Dissolve the lecithin in 1 cup (240cc) warm, NOT HOT, water, preferably distilled. You can use cold water but it dissolves much faster if slightly warmed. If the water is hot, it will clump rather than dissolve.

Dissolve the ascorbic acid in 1/2 cup warm water, preferably distilled.

Pour both solutions together into a wide mouth mason jar or other container that can accommodate the stick blender.

Blend until it forms a cloudy, homogeneous mixture in about 2 minutes.
Refrigerate and you're done. You will have to calculate the dose you are taking by the amount of Vitamin C in the product you use. For example, I bought a an ascorbic acid powder that will give me 12 grams of Vitamin C in 14 oz of solution. When I make this I am going to add enough extra Vitamin C to make 1g/oz.

Glutathione
Method is exactly the same as above:
3 level tablespoons soy lecithin
1 tablespoon or 7 grams of glutathione powder
Proceed exactly as above.

I could not find an affordable glutathione powder so I ended up buying 500mg capsules and opening them.
Hint: I have arthritic hands and opening the caps was a pain. I usually make a double batch. Well, today, I put the capsules in a baggie and beat the capsules with a small glass jar. It crumbled the capsules. I just poured it all in a large tea strainer and shook the powder into a bowl. Voila...just a few minutes and no pain :) Hope this helps someone else.

Hint#2: Decided pounding the capsules was a pain in the butt too, saw some kitchen shears on the counter and a light bulb went off. I just snipped the bottom of the caps off and shook the contents out into a jar. Simplest solution yet!

One affordable source of clean ascorbic acid powder: http://www.iherb.com/NutriBiotic-Ascorbic-Acid-Crystalline-Powder-2-2-lbs-1-kg/30240?at=0
Here's why I chose this one:
We use only 100% pure pharmaceutical grade L-ascorbic acid USP-FCC* (C6H8O6) which contains no corn residue, plant antigens, or protein impurities. Individuals allergic to corn or yeast can use this product with confidence. pH 2.1† Made without Gluten or GMOs

Reesacat
04-16-11, 01:22 PM
Thank you Mellow!
Anyone else who tries this, please let us know how you do and how you feel.

Aaltrude
04-16-11, 01:38 PM
Is it there any possible substitute for the soy lecithin for those of us who are soy intolerant?

mellowsong
04-16-11, 02:20 PM
Is it there any possible substitute for the soy lecithin for those of us who are soy intolerant?

I know one person who is soy intolerant using liposomal C and doing fine :)

Islander
04-16-11, 03:11 PM
Very useful information. Thx, Mello. I just stuck this thread!

mellowsong
04-16-11, 04:46 PM
Is it there any possible substitute for the soy lecithin for those of us who are soy intolerant?

I left this off my other post but I meant to add that there is lecithin made from sunflower seeds. I have no idea if you would use the same amount as the soy. Here is one example:
http://www.therawfoodworld.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1002747

Aaltrude
04-16-11, 04:48 PM
Thank you mellow.

Reesacat
04-16-11, 10:08 PM
Here is some more information on Liposomal Vitamin C:

According to the literature from the Liposomal C people they say the absorption is closer to IV vitamin C levels (this is from the company):

Liposomes are sub-microscopic bubbles made of a class of substances called phospholipids. Virtually every cell in the human body is encapsulated by a membrane made from phospholipids. When phospholipid layers are placed in certain solutions and under certain conditions, liposomal bubbles automatically form. These tiny bubbles are filled with the host solution and now protect the enclosed substance from exposure to degrading substances in the surrounding environment.

This is particularly important for anti-oxidant nutrients like Vitamin C that are easily oxidized by electron-hungry substances in the air we breathe.

Phospholipids are also impervious to digestive juices which make liposomes ideal for transporting acid- and enzyme-reactive substances through the digestive tract.

In addition, the submicroscopic size of nutrient-filled liposomes is so small that they easily pass through the intestinal barrier without requiring help from an active transport system or from osmotic pressure in the gut. Hence, virtually all of the nutrient is carried straight to the cells that need it.

Dr. Hickey and Dr. Roberts state on page 235 of their new book, Cancer and Nutrition, “Use of liposomal preparations of Vitamin C may increase its effectiveness, blurring the distinction between oral and intravenous therapies.” Dr. Thomas Levy, after several personal and clinical successes with liposomal encapsulated Vitamin C, tells his medical peers, “I have consistently found this [liposomal encapsulated] form of Vitamin C to be vastly more beneficial clinically than IV Vitamin C. To be sure, if I am sick, I want both IV C and liposomal encapsulated Vitamin C. However, if I can only have one form, I have no hesitation in saying it will be liposomal encapsulated Vitamin C.”

At www.VitaminCFoundation.org, Owen R. Fonorow, a Vitamin C expert, states in the product forum, -- “The ability to reach IV serum levels orally .... is a benefit worth the higher cost [compared to other forms of oral ascorbate] for many people.”
http://www.anti-agingresearchcenter....echnology.html

Here is a short video from Dr. Michael K. Ihara making liposomal Vitamin C (very similar to Mellow's recipe):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeU--wadrMY

Julieanne
05-31-11, 04:43 AM
mellowsong, I just came across a site that has glutathione powder: www.thebestfoodever.com (http://www.thebestfoodever.com). Powders are usually more economical than capsules.

mellowsong
05-31-11, 04:14 PM
mellowsong, I just came across a site that has glutathione powder: www.thebestfoodever.com (http://www.thebestfoodever.com). Powders are usually more economical than capsules.

I found one powder which was way more expensive than capsules. However, I clicked your link and I cannot find glutathione on that site :)

Julieanne
06-01-11, 11:56 PM
Sorry mellowsong, when I went back I couldn't either! One of those sites that I'd come across through a number of links, so I'd never find the original link again.

mellowsong
06-02-11, 10:30 AM
Sorry mellowsong, when I went back I couldn't either! One of those sites that I'd come across through a number of links, so I'd never find the original link again.

No problem...has happened to me many times!!! I can say I have searched as have 2 friends...we all found the same one which for some reason was much more expensive than the capsules. So, right now, I'll just open the caps :)

Thegratefulgardener
08-24-11, 12:53 PM
I found a sunflower lecithin to use in place of the soy, but it's not granular, it's more like a paste - think nut butter. Does anyone know if it will work? I'm not sure if the form matters.

I'm planning to use a blender and an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner (I found one that you can set for up to 30 minutes with no auto shut-off!).

mellowsong
08-24-11, 01:17 PM
I found a sunflower lecithin to use in place of the soy, but it's not granular, it's more like a paste - think nut butter. Does anyone know if it will work? I'm not sure if the form matters.

I'm sorry but I cannot answer your question. However, just so you know, even people who are soy intolerant seem to tolerate the soy lecithin. All I can suggest is trying it using the same amounts called for with the granules and see if it all emulsifies in the jewelry cleaner. Good luck and let us know how it turns out :)

Good-day
08-24-11, 01:27 PM
What are you taking this for?

Islander
08-24-11, 05:07 PM
I can't speak for others, but I keep a bottle in the fridge ICE (In Case of Emergency), "emergency" being symptoms of cold or flu that do not resolve in 24 hours with megadoses of vitamin C in capsules (a gram every 2 hours). Liposomal C is absorbed at a much higher rate than caps so a little goes a long way.

Reesacat
08-24-11, 05:12 PM
Good-day, who are you addressing your question to?
I take the liposomal C because it absorbs so very well (much better than other oral forms) without GI side effects. It isn't quite as good as IV Vitamin C which is used to treat symptoms of CFIDS, but for those of us with CFIDS this is a good second option.
The Liposomal C helps me fight infections, helps with fatigue, and my skin and gums look better.

Good-day
08-24-11, 06:14 PM
Reesacat asking what it helps was for anyone who cared to reply! It sounded like a good combo; something of benefit too. Is homemade cheaper or preferable?

Islander
08-24-11, 06:34 PM
Definitely homemade is cheaper, but since I use it only rarely, I still have the first bottle I bought. If you, like some here, have a specific need for it, you might wish to learn to make it.

Thegratefulgardener
08-25-11, 11:23 AM
I'm sorry but I cannot answer your question. However, just so you know, even people who are soy intolerant seem to tolerate the soy lecithin. All I can suggest is trying it using the same amounts called for with the granules and see if it all emulsifies in the jewelry cleaner. Good luck and let us know how it turns out :)

Thanks, Mellowsong! Yes, I am okay with an organic or non-gmo source of soy, but a close friend has Lupus and has been soy-free as recommended by her doctor. She's worried about adding anything soy. I'm going to get both and do a test batch of each to compare them. I'll let you know how it works.

Also, I understand it's better to use a sodium-ascorbate for high-dose treatment rather than ascorbic acid (due to stomach upset) or calcium ascorbate (due to build up of calcium), but I am having a very hard time finding a non-gmo or organic source of that. I found a few whole food vitamin c sources, but they have co-enzymes and other things in them from the food source - nothing added though. Your post said to be sure it's just pure vitamin c. Do you think the whole food source C will work?

Thanks for everything!

mellowsong
08-25-11, 12:35 PM
I found a few whole food vitamin c sources, but they have co-enzymes and other things in them from the food source - nothing added though. Your post said to be sure it's just pure vitamin c. Do you think the whole food source C will work? Thanks for everything!

I bought sodium ascorbate the first time and pretty much all the ascorbates are buffered. No matter how long I mixed it (I use an immersion blender) the mixture would not stay together. I tried using less thinking the problem might be too much powder but that didn't work either. If the whole food source is not buffered it may work but again, I have no way of knowing. All you can do is try. I cannot afford a whole food Vitamin C much as I would like to so I get the bad stuff made from corn. I hate that but figure by the time it is made into the Vitamin C very little to no pesticide or GMO protein is left. I am much better off using this than not taking Vitamin C at all :)

Good-day
08-25-11, 03:43 PM
[QUOTE=Reesacat;helps with fatigue,

Any kind of fatigue?

Reesacat
08-25-11, 03:46 PM
If your fatigue is due to low thyroid or something like a food allergy to gluten, the Liposomal C will ease it a bit but the underlying problem needs to be corrected. If you are fighting an infection such as a virus the Lipsomal C will help you fight it and that helps the fatigue.

Reesacat
08-25-11, 03:59 PM
Vitamin C does so many things at so many levels it is one of my core supplements. Vitamin C is used in building skin, bones, teeth, tissue, etc.; it's an anti-oxidant, it supports the immune system, etc.
Your body doesn't make Vitamin C, so you need to get it from food and supplements if you need extra.

Islander
08-25-11, 05:04 PM
I just want to point out that liposomal vitamin C is quite expensive and really hi-powered. Unless you have some condition, either chronic (like CFID) or a sudden illness, that you need mega-doses of C to address, a good-quality traditional vitamin C will work just fine. The ordinary caps are what I take daily, and bulk up on at the first sign of a scratchy throat. The liposomal C is reserved for real emergencies.

Good-day
08-25-11, 08:45 PM
[QUOTE=Islander; symptoms of cold or flu

Any proven benefit (including by experience) for systemic type infections?

Reesacat
08-25-11, 10:20 PM
I have used the Lipsomal Vitamin C (1,000 mg) and Vitamin D3 (4,000 IU) every 2-4 hours for around 24 hours to help me knock out on different occasions flu, virus, and a gum infection. It made me feel less sick with the flu aches, etc.
With the Lipsomal Vitamin C I didn't get the gastric upset of non-liposomal high dose Vitamin C (for me those side effects are cramping and diarrhea). I had gotten to the point I was almost not able to take regular non-lipsomal Vitamin C over 4,000 mg/day due to the gastric side effects.

mellowsong
08-25-11, 10:59 PM
Grateful I wasn't thinking straight this morning or I would have given you this info earlier. I'm sorry about that :) Here is the powder I use to make my liposomal C. I tolerate it very well: http://www.iherb.com/NutriBiotic-Ascorbic-Acid-Crystalline-Powder-2-2-lbs-1-kg/30240?at=0
Why I chose this one, besides affordability:
We use only 100% pure pharmaceutical grade L-ascorbic acid USP-FCC* (C6H8O6) which contains no corn residue, plant antigens, or protein impurities. Individuals allergic to corn or yeast can use this product with confidence.
pH 2.1† Made without Gluten or GMOs

Thegratefulgardener
08-25-11, 11:51 PM
Grateful I wasn't thinking straight this morning or I would have given you this info earlier. I'm sorry about that :) Here is the powder I use to make my liposomal C. I tolerate it very well: http://www.iherb.com/NutriBiotic-Ascorbic-Acid-Crystalline-Powder-2-2-lbs-1-kg/30240?at=0
Why I chose this one, besides affordability:
We use only 100% pure pharmaceutical grade L-ascorbic acid USP-FCC* (C6H8O6) which contains no corn residue, plant antigens, or protein impurities. Individuals allergic to corn or yeast can use this product with confidence.
pH 2.1† Made without Gluten or GMOs

Thanks, Mellowsong! I was about to get that one when I read that with high doses, like my friend with Lupus will need, the ascorbic acid will bother her tummy. You tolerate it well - what kind of doses are you taking, if you don't mind my asking.

Thegratefulgardener
08-25-11, 11:53 PM
I have used the Lipsomal Vitamin C (1,000 mg) and Vitamin D3 (4,000 IU) every 2-4 hours for around 24 hours to help me knock out on different occasions flu, virus, and a gum infection. It made me feel less sick with the flu aches, etc.
With the Lipsomal Vitamin C I didn't get the gastric upset of non-liposomal high dose Vitamin C (for me those side effects are cramping and diarrhea). I had gotten to the point I was almost not able to take regular non-lipsomal Vitamin C over 4,000 mg/day due to the gastric side effects.

Hi Ressacat! Is your liposomal C homemade? If so, are you using ascorbic acid and having no gastric upset? I'm trying to pick a C to use for a friend who will need very high doses. Thanks!

Reesacat
08-25-11, 11:59 PM
The whole point about the liposomal formulation is that it doesn't sit in the GI tract but is absorbed up to 8 times better so using ascorbic acid in the formulaton is not a problem. I can take 4,000 mg liposomal C with no GI side effects but if I took the equvilent in regular vitamin C (32,000 mg) I'd be in the bathroom nonstop!

Thegratefulgardener
08-26-11, 12:04 AM
@Reesacat - Thanks. I didn't understand that at all. Makes it much easier to get this going for my friend.

Reesacat
08-26-11, 12:04 AM
I buy mine -- use LiveonLab brand I get at Iherb, but Mellow makes hers and takes up to 4,000 mg liposomal C with no probems (we both have CFIDS/MCS).

Reesacat
08-26-11, 12:08 AM
Let us know how it works for your friend?
And your friend is blessed to have you to help!

mellowsong
08-26-11, 08:52 AM
Thanks, Mellowsong! I was about to get that one when I read that with high doses, like my friend with Lupus will need, the ascorbic acid will bother her tummy. You tolerate it well - what kind of doses are you taking, if you don't mind my asking.

I take 1.5grams twice a day. When I feel like I might be trying to catch a bug, I'll take 4 to 6 grams/day. Even the higher doses do not bother my stomach at all nor does it cause diarrhea. No way I could take that much regular Vitamin C without problems. Most of the ascorbic acid is encased in a phospholipid bubble and is absorbed with the phospholipid so it is very different than regular vitamin C in how it affects the GI tract.

Islander
08-26-11, 09:03 AM
Aaaaand I'm different (again!) in that I routinely take 4 grams daily in capsules (spaced out 4 times/day). If I hear a bug knocking on the door, I take a gram every 2 hours above and beyond the usual dose, along with echinacea and olive leaf. That would be roughly 10-12 grams/day — usually one day of that is all I need. I have never experienced any GI distress at that level. Maybe that's a signal that my body is putting it right to use?

Reesacat
08-26-11, 09:15 AM
You do great, Islander! Taking the Vitamin C in divided doses is smart and increases absorption of the regular form.
Intolerance to supplements is often found with MCS and CFIDS. Mellow and I have long-standing malabsorption problems, so for us or someone else with chronic health issues the liposomal form is close to a miracle.

mellowsong
09-04-11, 03:12 PM
I edited the sticky but: Last night I had to make more liposomal glutathione. I didn't even have the energy to open or pound the capsules. Saw some kitchen shears on the counter and light bulb flashed. I snipped the ends off the caps, shook the contents into a jar and that was the end of it. I think this is the easiest way to open all those caps :)

Julieanne
08-23-12, 06:59 AM
mellow, what sort of dose do you take - of the glutathione? Have you ever tried inhaled glutathione?

mellowsong
08-23-12, 10:11 AM
mellow, what sort of dose do you take - of the glutathione? Have you ever tried inhaled glutathione? I tried inhaled glutathione. Initially it was very helpful but over time, started causing major bronchospasms and I discovered that this is because it forms sulfites in the airway. Apparently I'm sulfite sensitive and could not continue using it nebulized. When I first started making liposomal glutathione, I was taking 2g/day. I took that much for about 6 months, then cut back to 1g/day. Very high dose but home-made is not as potent as what you buy and also, I really wanted to make sure some was getting to my lungs. I recently switched to a prepared liposomal glutathione and now take 500mg/day. One problem with prepared glutathione for me is that they all use preservatives and many use ingredients I just can't tolerate. I thought I found one brand that was good but it tastes horrid and honestly I think it's oxidized because the taste gets worse the longer it's opened, even in the fridge.

Julieanne
08-24-12, 04:51 AM
Thanks mellow. I have been taking N-Acetyl Cysteine 600mg 3 x day for a while now. I have no idea how much glutathione the body might make with this dose, I guess there is no way to measure it.

Still thinking about the liposomal. Can you overdo it? (I'm not sulphite sensitive).

mellowsong
08-24-12, 01:01 PM
@Julieanne, I took a hefty dose of NAC for a long time (I think 1200mg 3X/day but can't remember) and did not see the improvements I have with liposomal glutathione. I definitely cough less and don't get as short of breath. I've been doing liposomal for probably close to a year now. It took a while to see a change. I doubt you can overdo it but it is expensive and most research I've seen (on liposomal) recommends 500mg (actually most are 420mg) to 1g/day.

Julieanne
08-25-12, 06:12 AM
Thanks again. It's so useful to get someone's personal experience, rather than Google the information. I guess that is what this forum is all about, among other things.

sollyb
08-25-12, 07:22 PM
Mellow,
I'm curious about your first post about the liposomal C. The buffered C you had that would not work, what was it buffered with?
I routinely use sodium ascorbate (that I mix myself) to make liposomal C.

I'd also like to ask if anyone knows why C makes such major changes in my mood/emotions? Calming and smoothing out anxiety and irritability and emotional over-reactions.This effect that I get isn't because it is liposomal, I get the same effect if I take the sodium ascorbate straight.

mellowsong
08-25-12, 08:28 PM
I'm curious about your first post about the liposomal C. The buffered C you had that would not work, what was it buffered with? I routinely use sodium ascorbate (that I mix myself) to make liposomal C.

When Vitamin C (usually the ascorbate salt) says buffered, it means they added minerals like magnesium, calcium and potassium to buffer the acidity. For some reason, buffered would not hold in liposomal form...it would separate in a few hours no matter how long I blended it.

NatureAlley
08-30-12, 04:24 PM
The buffered forms of ascorbic acid usually contain calcium-2+ as a counterion. Calcium ions bind strongly to the polar phosphate groups on lecithin, thereby making it impossible for the lecithin molecules to arrange themselves into liposomal bilayers. All bivalent ions will have that effect to some extent. Monovalent ions like sodium or potassium are safe. So when making liposomes with other components than vit C it pays to make sure the substance to be included does not contain calcium or magnesium.

Reesacat
08-30-12, 05:20 PM
Thank you, NatureAlley and welcome to Hawkes Health Forum!

We have a New Member's section — please introduce yourself to the forum.

mellowsong
08-30-12, 06:35 PM
TYVM for the explanation NatureAlley and welcome to the forum :)

sparky
11-06-12, 05:27 PM
I make liposomal vit. c using liquid sunflower lecithin. For the vit. C formula, I placed approximately 2 Tablespoons of the sunflower lecithin in a glass 2 C measuring cup. I heated 1 C of distilled water water in the microwave for a 90 sec. and added the hot water to the cup with the lecithin and stirred. The glass cup with the lecithin cooled the hot water some and I stirred considerably and it formed flakes so I added an additional cut of cold distilled water and put it in the blender which did change the appearance but there were still some chunks and flakes. I dissolved the vit. C in 1 cup of cold distilled water and added it to the blender and blended it again but there were still some flakes and chunks. I went ahead and put it into the 70 watt sonicator and ran it for 8 minutes while stirring it regularly. It came out looking like the eggnog that I had seen in a video demonstration, so it seemed to have worked well. The lecithin is sold under the label of Blue Mountain Organics and the place with the lowest price is Shamen's Market. You use about 1/3 rd of what you would granular lecithin. I am allergic to soy products so can't use them.

sparky
11-06-12, 05:38 PM
Mellow, Can you tell me what the name and brand of the "stick" blender that you used and the source of it? I suspect that it is a combination of a blade blender and a sonicator as such devices are available for the lab. I wonder how it would work for those of use using the liquid sunflower lecithin, although that worked in the bath sonicator.

Reesacat
11-06-12, 05:49 PM
I think Mellow used a stick immersion blender you get for cooking....
Thank you so much for sharing your experience, sparky!

mellowsong
11-06-12, 07:53 PM
Mellow, Can you tell me what the name and brand of the "stick" blender that you used and the source of it? No, nothing fancy like lab equipment. It is a Kitchen Aid immersion blender with 9 speeds. Works great. I have not used the sunflower lecithin so I can't tell you about that. However, since it is liquid and phospholipids, I don't see why this method wouldn't work with that too.

NatureAlley
11-07-12, 03:17 AM
Hi Sparky,

the composition of the sunflower lecithin must differ considerably from that from soy or egg yolk, since the stuff you use is liquid and the other ones are solid at room temperature. I only have a little experience with soy lecithin.
I heat water for the solid lecithin to make a suspension. The grains take about 30 min to an hour to soak and form a mucous slurry. By this time the slurry has come down to room temperature. In my hands when making a soy lecithin "liposomal" suspension it is not so easy to make a smooth milky solution when the mix is still warm, it is much much easier when cooled.

This might even more so be the case for liquid lecithin. Have you tried cooling the water and the mix before blending?

I am not sure if this is true for sunflower lecithin, but I would assume the finished liposomal solution to be low viscosity, not like thick eggnog. Unless it is highly concentrated, perhaps. I would love to hear other members' experiences and learn from the community here.

I have a question too: does the ultrasonic device really make a difference when you have already used a high speed blender? Liposomes can be made with either device and I have the impression the process is largely complete after thorough blending. What experience do the members have?

To your health!

Aaltrude
11-07-12, 03:25 AM
NatureAlley - do you if there is any source of sunflower lecithin in New Zealand?

NatureAlley
11-07-12, 04:42 AM
Hi Aaltrude,

A quick search with Google using the keywords "sunflower lecithin new zealand" showed a couple of suppliers. One of them is http://www.livingfoodslifestyle.co.nz/shop/item.aspx?itemid=782. But there are more hits. Good luck!

Aaltrude
11-07-12, 04:53 AM
Google obviously likes you. When I tried that search, I only got overseas sites. I might have to give it a miss though. The price is out of my range.

Julieanne
11-07-12, 05:57 AM
iherb has sunflower lecithin, but only in softgel form, not powder. You probably already searched there!

Aaltrude
11-07-12, 01:14 PM
Yep, I have searched there Julieanne and found the sunflower lecithin in softgels.

ndtobe
12-29-12, 04:11 PM
I found a sunflower lecithin to use in place of the soy, but it's not granular, it's more like a paste - think nut butter. Does anyone know if it will work? I'm not sure if the form matters.

I'm planning to use a blender and an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner (I found one that you can set for up to 30 minutes with no auto shut-off!).

The company that I bought the paste Sunflower Lecithin from (did not work) is now making a powdered form http://www.mysunflowerlecithin.com/deoiled-sunflower-lecithin-in-powder-form/

Their shipping is steep, but the estimated amount of the home-made product should be substantially cheaper per unit than buying a "30 days supply" of a 1000 mg serving size of pre-made Liposomal Vit C that is being sold.

Islander
12-29-12, 06:39 PM
Thanks for that info, ndtobe, and welcome. Please go to the New Members forum and start a thread to introduce yourself. Does nd stand for naturopathic doctor?

ndtobe
12-29-12, 09:58 PM
Does nd stand for naturopathic doctor?

Yes.

ndtobe
12-30-12, 07:53 PM
Please go to the New Members forum and start a thread to introduce yourself. I would love to, but I could not find the New Members forum.

Aaltrude
12-30-12, 07:58 PM
I would love to, but I could not find the New Members forum.
Click on the Hawkes Health Forum logo at the top of this page to go to the home page, Scroll down through the "Main Section" to find the link to the "New Members Area" near the end of the Main Section. :)

Matthew
01-04-13, 08:18 PM
Hi, New member here. I have made Lip. C a number of times with a sonic cleaner and when I tested it with the baking soda test 4 inches of foam formed. It is supposed to be no more than 1/2 inch. I've tried blending it first in a Vitamix blender, heating it to 120 degrees etc. This last time I used 3 tablespoons of liquid Sunflower Lecithin from Lekithos. It blended well in the blender but came out of suspension in the sonic cleaner! And when tested still formed 4 inches of foam. Has anyone had a successful test with homemade lip C? I've just about given up.
I want to make a blend of vit C and Vitamin K2. Vitamin K is a powerful cancer killer and I have been fighting squamous cell cancer in the back of my throat since 2006, with non conventional treatments only. In a video by Dr. Donsbach, he indicated that store bought vitamin C does not have small enough particle size to be successfully encapsulated. I tried grinding my ascorbic acid in my coffee grinder first, to no avail. My only other option is to put the vit. C in the sonic cleaner first and see if that reduces the particle size before adding the lecithin.
I just want to add that none of the videos on the internet test the home made brew of Liposomal Vit. C. I have followed the procedure very carefully, so either it actually does not work with a blender and sonic cleaner or something has been left out of the process that is causing it to fail. Either that or the suggested way of testing is bogus. So again I ask. Has anyone ever had a positive test using the baking soda where the foam was 1/2 inch or less. If so please tell me exactly what you did to accomplish it. Thanks.

ndtobe
01-04-13, 09:31 PM
Matthew,

I am awaiting on the order of powdered form of Sunflower Lecithin (Lekithos recently started selling it) and will update when it arrives and I attempt to use it. My attempt making it with liquid lecithin failed, it would not blend in the blender much, then the resulting mixture became too hard to use for anything (I am wondering how you succeeded).

Also, I do not know what "testing" you are referring to, can you please elaborate? Also, why does it matter how much foam you get?

Thanks!

Reesacat
01-04-13, 10:40 PM
Matthew, did you read the beginning of this thread? Mellowsong gave very detailed instructions using a stick/immersion blender. If buffered Vitamin C used it won't become liposomal.

mellowsong
01-05-13, 12:44 AM
Matthew, I have not used sunflower lecithin so not sure there. Please tell me exactly what C you are using. It has to be a pure powder. I will answer more in the morning when I am on computer.

Matthew
01-05-13, 01:04 AM
Yes, I read the post about using the stick blender. I have read that simply blending it will not encapsulate the vitamin C. The test I referred to was by Brooks Bradley. This is a quote from the article about making Lip. C. "Although not scientifically rigorous, I offer a simple test which will yield the DIY researcher some element of confidence that they do, in fact, have a useful measure of liposomal encapsulate.
First, pour about 4 ounces of your finished Vitamin C encapsulate into a cylindrical, 12 ounce water glass. Next, place 1/4 teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate into about 1 ounce of distilled water and stir for 3 to 5 seconds. Next, pour the sodium bicarbonate solution into the Vitamin C mixture and stir gently for several seconds. Note: If the foam/bubble line which forms on top is 1/2 inch or less---in height---you have about a 50% encapsulation efficiency. If the foam/bubble line is 3/8 of one inch...or less, you have about a 60% efficiency. If the foam/bubble line is 1/8 inch or less, you have about 75% efficiency. If the foam/bubble line is just a trace.....you should major in chemistry."

I may be wrong on this, but I believe he was the one who came up with the way to make homemade Lip. C. Here is the link to the entire article if you would like to read his method. http://michaelmooney.net/BrooksBradleysHomemadeLiposomalVitaminCMethod.pdf

As for how I got the sunflower Lecithin to blend, I heated it to 130 degrees (oops, 10 degrees too hot) and blended it in a Vitamix blender on high for 1 minute. It blends at extremely fast speed. But when I put it in the sonic cleaner is separated back out. So I poured it back into the blender and reblended it and put it back in the sonic cleaner and it separated again! So I poured it into a jar and stuck it in the frig, where it remains to this day, about a week later. Looks terrible, I will probably discard it. Such a waste!

The other batches I made with non gmo soy lecithin I did use, even though they tested poorly and was actually able to take 17 ounces in 10 hours, but it did give me loose stools at the end of the day. That would mean about 16 grams of vitamin C that should have been encapsulated, and another 6.6 grams of unencapsulated vitamin C at 70% encapsulation. My math is as follows. One tablespoon of vit. C power is 16 grams. The mixture uses 12 ounces of liquid. So that's 16 grams of vitamin C into 12 ounces. 12 into 16 equals 1.333. 1.333 times 70% equals .9331 grams per ounce (slightly less than one gram) that should be encapsulated at 70% encapsulation.
To look at it another way, I had 22.661 grams of homemade liposomal vitamin C that day, with loose stools at the end of the day. So maybe it worked to some extent. I know the usual maximum oral dose of non encapsulated vitamin C is 10 grams, but I don't know if that is taken at once or over a certain amount of time in one day. Sorry for such a long post.

ndtobe
01-05-13, 01:28 AM
Sorry for such a long post No, no! Quite the opposite - thank you for such a long post.

Now it makes complete sense - the UN-encapsulated portion, being ascorbic acid would react with sodium bicarbonate, producing the foam. The less free ascorbic acid there is to react the more encapsulation was achieved.

Your calculations are appreciated as well.

mellowsong
01-05-13, 09:57 AM
@Matthew: Some thoughts on what the problem may be.
1: Try using sodium ascorbate powder NOT ascorbic acid powder. Which one are you using? I have heard that sodium ascorbate will encapsulate easier. When I was making it however, I was using ascorbic acid powder so not sure this is the problem. It is a problem if using buffered. Buffered will separate; it doesn't encapsulate.
2: My understanding is a regular blender won't work well but the immersion blenders do. A regular blender is fine for mixing the lecithin into the water but not for making the liposomal. You do have to blend for a few minutes with the immersion blender to make sure it doesn't separate. I have never used the ultrasonic method.
3. You must soak the lecithin in warm water for several minutes and then mix it well to make sure no clumps.
4. Don't use too much powder. If you have any powder not in solution, you are using too much.
5. Make sure you are using very pure distilled water. Minerals in other water may react and cause failure to encapsulate.
6. Too much lecithin can also be a problem
I honestly don't know how much stock to put in the foam test but the premise is logical. (only applicable to C, not glutathione). I tested at the beginning and the longer I blended it the less foam. After had my method down pretty good, I didn't test anymore.
Here is a link to testing of home made liposomal C (at the bottom) http://racehorseherbal.com/Infections/LET/let.html This is for using the ultrasonic method.

Personal experience: I have read that ultrasonic is preferred and that you are simply emulsifying when using the blender. I don't know; I do know that I was able to tolerate very high doses of my liposomal C without GI side effects that I got from regular. Right now, I'm buying it because of energy limitations from CFIDS.

Reesacat
01-05-13, 01:54 PM
Just a thank you to all who have shared information and experiences — I have learned so much just reading through this thread and appreciate the time everyone has taken to help others with the making of liposomals. Bless you all!

ndtobe
01-28-13, 07:48 PM
With this method you get about 75% encapsulation vs 90% on the store bought stuff. Basically take a little more and you are still saving huge amounts of money.
This makes about 14 oz of product.
Vitamin C
3 level tablespoons of soy lecithin (45cc). Make sure it is GMO free and organic if possible.
1 level tablespoon ascorbic acid powder (15cc)

Dissolve the lecithin in 1 cup (240cc) warm, NOT HOT, water, preferably distilled. You can use cold water but it dissolves much faster if slightly warmed. If the water is hot, it will clump rather than dissolve.

Dissolve the ascorbic acid in 1/2 cup warm water, preferably distilled.

Pour both solutions together into a wide mouth mason jar or other container that can accommodate the stick blender.

Blend until it forms a cloudy, homogeneous mixture in about 2 minutes.
Refrigerate and you're done. You will have to calculate the dose you are taking by the amount of Vitamin C in the product you use. For example, I bought a buffered powder that will give me 12 grams of Vitamin C in 14 oz of solution. When I make this I am going to add enough extra Vitamin C to make 1g/oz.



I used this recipe to the T or so I thought. No success however - complete separation of two layers, actually almost immediately.

I used Trader Joe's Vitamin C Crystals (they claim it to be pure ascorbic acid, no fillers, etc.,) http://media.fooducate.com/products/images/180x180/4DD0E046-6F5F-E20A-495A-8924B41B7079.jpg

and Lekithos powdered Sunflower Lecithin

http://www.mysunflowerlecithin.com/downloads/prodimg/deoiled_lecithin.jpg

What do you think I could have done wrong?

Islander
01-28-13, 08:12 PM
There is some confusion (at least in my head) over ascorbic acid vs. ascorbate. I read that buffered product will not work, but ascorbate IS buffered. So I'm no help at all. I make it successfully with ascorbic acid.

ndtobe
01-28-13, 08:55 PM
There is some confusion (at least in my head) over ascorbic acid vs. ascorbate. I read that buffered product will not work, but ascorbate IS buffered. So I'm no help at all. I make it successfully with ascorbic acid.

Well, "ascorbates" or any " -ates" are usually salts of the acid, in this case the Ascorbic Acid (can be Calcium Ascorbate, Potassium Ascorbate, Sodium Ascorbate, ad nauseum ascorbate :D ). Since it said everywhere that it has to be "pure", I figured the acid itself would be a better choice.

mellowsong
01-28-13, 09:32 PM
ndtobe: I see in the quote from me, it says buffered...thought I had edited buffered out so need to fix. I'm pretty sure the term "sodium ascorbate" means it is buffered and therefore it will not work for liposomal. Since you said you used pure ascorbic acid, I really don't know unless it has something to do with the sunflower lecithin.

haydeon
03-03-13, 10:48 PM
I followed the recipe above, and it looks like it turned out right. My solution didn't break after sitting in the fridge overnight. I slowly poured the lecithin solution into the ascorbic acid solution while I blended it, like I was making an aioli.

I'm still a little suspicious of this method. I wonder why more people haven't caught onto it and still say to use ultrasonic cleaners. I may just buy one anyway. Maybe I'll make batches with both methods, try the sodium bicarbonate test mentioned above, and compare the results.

I bought vitamin C powder at our local natural foods store. They sell it in bulk, and I can't say for sure what kind of powder it is. I told the lady I wanted ascorbic acid vitamin C. I didn't see the label with my own eyes because she went to the back to get it. The bottle of lecithin was about $20.

Click on the attachment to see a picture of my liposomal vitamin c.

349

Reesacat
03-03-13, 10:55 PM
Thank you for sharing your experience and great picture :)

Islander
03-03-13, 11:41 PM
Looks good to me!

Reesacat
03-03-13, 11:49 PM
I was so busy reading your post I forgot to say Welcome haydeon! We have a new member's section if you would like to introduce yourself to the forum.

mellowsong
03-04-13, 10:33 AM
Welcome haydeon. So glad it worked out for you.

haydeon
03-12-13, 11:20 AM
Thanks for the information. For the record, this concoction tastes pretty gross and has a very long aftertaste. I'd plan on having something to wash it down with or mix it with something else.

But my wife is feeling better, so apparently it works.

Islander
03-12-13, 12:03 PM
I haven't made it in a while but I seem to remember adding something... lemon extract, maybe, and a packet of stevia, maybe... but I did fossick around with it a bit to offset that grody taste. A hit of strong coffee afterward helped too!

Good-day
04-01-13, 04:50 PM
I'd like to try this for sickness and an energy boost if it works! I also read an article which stated vitamin c would lower cholesterol as well as clean out arteries. Do you know if this is true and what the doses would be?

Islander
04-01-13, 06:16 PM
I'd like to try this for sickness and an energy boost if it works! I also read an article which stated vitamin c would lower cholesterol as well as clean out arteries. Do you know if this is true and what the doses would be?

Yes, Linus Pauling was instrumental in confirming this effect. I recomment 4 grams/day, taken in 4 divided doses. The product you want is Vitamin C with L-Lysine and L-Proline. We reported on it here: http://www.hawkeshealth.net/community/showthread.php?t=4310

The product: http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-l-lysine-l-proline-complex

Good-day
04-01-13, 07:09 PM
Ok thanks for the info. I don't have your expertise to get around the site! I think glutathione beneficial too. My friend was under the impression that the 2, atheroschlerosis and high cholesterol was going to put him through both invasive tests and hospitilization and he was to wary of this. I don't have the knowledge to reassure him, but your info has helped and he is of persuasion to follow this type of protocol.

Islander
04-01-13, 08:27 PM
There's plenty of information here to reassure him that unless his total cholesterol is over 300, he is perfectly normal & should stop worrying. Your body NEEDS all that cholesterol!