6 Foods That Weaken Bones

[Julieanne]

Sep 12, 2011 5:01 pm


By Melanie Haiken (http://www.caring.com/authors/melanie-haiken?utm_source=care2&utm_medium=partner), Caring.com (http://www.caring.com/?utm_source=care2&utm_medium=partnership)
What you eat plays a big role in whether you’re getting the nutrients you need to build strong bones (http://www.caring.com/articles/osteoporosis-10-bone-builders?utm_source=care2&utm_medium=partner). What might surprise you, though, is that your diet can also play a role in sapping bone strength. Some foods actually leach the minerals right out of the bone, or they block the bone’s ability to regrow. Here, the six biggest bone-sappers:




Read more: http://www.care2.com/greenliving/6-foods-that-weaken-bones.html#ixzz1XuNYHLlI

[Reesacat]

Good list except I disagree about the salt. Processed salt in processed food — bad for the body.
Sea salt in unprocessed food a good source of trace minerals for bones and tissue.
Also eat egg yolks. I don't take supplemental Vitamin A but I do eat 2-3 organic eggs a day.

[mellowsong]

Salt Totally disagree with this IF you are using a good, non-processed sea salt that has all the minerals present in balance. So many things with electrolytes are not so much the amounts, but the ratio/balance of what you consume. Sodium is blamed for just about everything but taken with all the other minerals and with adequate potassium intake, sodium is NOT the culprit.

Calcium The main reason for the effect is that caffeine is a diuretic and therefore you would excrete more calcium because you urinate more. 6mg is a tiny tiny amount compared to average intake. It would take an awful lot of caffeine and almost no calcium intake for this to be significant enough to result in bone loss. Also, have to wonder about calcium/magnesium ratio...if that was adequate would this be a problem at all?

Vitamin A Have to wonder, if Vitamin D3 levels were adequate..say 40 or higher...if this correlation would have been noted. Yes, Vitamin A, in excess can apparently cause calcium loss from bones but when taken with the right ratio of Vitamin D, I doubt this would occur. Ideally Vitamin A to Vitamin D is no more than a 10:1 ratio. In other words for every 10IU of Vitamin A, you must have 1IU of Vitamin D3.

Again, I doubt any of the 3 things I've mentioned above would be a problem in a person eating a clean, unprocessed diet.

[Aaltrude]

This article is also subscribing to the fallacy that calcium is the most important mineral for healthy bones. Calcium is only one of many minerals that are required and it needs to be in balance with these other minerals. In fact calcium on its own is a hardening agent which by itself is not good. Yes, it will give a greater density to your bones but it is a hard brittle density and brittle increases the risk of fracture. Calcium is also one of the agents responsible for hardening of the arteries. Very simplistically, arteries become inflammed, cholesterol comes along to try and heal the inflammation and calcium deposits on the cholesterol.
Be very careful about taking calcium supplements. It must be in balance with other nutrients and magnesium in particular. Studies have shown that populations that have a high intake of dairy products also have the highest rate of osteoporosis.

[Julieanne]

I have to say I am rather disappointed in the results from my scan last week - not as much improvement as I expected. I have been taking magnesium, Vit D, Vit K2 and a small amount of calcium. I was also taking strontium till I stopped recently. So after two years, I have gone from 'osteoporosis' to 'stable osteoporosis'. The figures were:

Scan Type BMD (gm/cm2) T-score Z-score

AP Spine (L2 - L4) 0.687 -3.10 1.58
Hip (Femoral Neck) 0.5111 -3.54 -1.80

Previous figures 0.672 -3.21 -1.79
0.524 -3.43 -1.84

I was expecting a much better result. I don't really know what the figures mean, but a note at the bottom says if T-score is below -2.5 it shows severely reduced bone density. The figure has actually gone higher for my hip.

[Reesacat]

Stable is good but I share your concerns. SayerJi had a video about bone scans/density tests and said they compare bones of women in their 60's to bones of women in their 30's, not healthy bones of women in their 60's so right off the bat you don't get a clear picture of how healthy your bones are.
I know with the GAPS diet and Weston A. Price they use bone broth to build bones and heal the gut because the minerals are absorbed and utilized. The minerals in supplements you may not be able to absorb or utilize them. (I am wondering more and more if you have malabsorption issues, Julieanne.)
My whole side of my mother's family has severe osteoporosis which I think is related to gluten intolerance and malabsorption that is genetic in origin. They also have history of mild rheumatoid arthritis, irritable bowel syndrome, thyroid problems, anxiety/emotional disorders and immune system problems.

[Reesacat]

I found some information on how to read your DEXA scans from Kate Lindemann PhD at
http://www.osteopenia3.com/index.html:


http://www.osteopenia3.com/dexascan.html
Understanding your dexa scan results

You have your Dexa scan results. You have T score numbers and Z score numbers.
You have pluses ( + ) and/or minuses ( - ) and you have been diagnosed with Osteopenia or Osteoporosis. But it seems a bit confusing. What does it all mean?

You can understand your dexa scan results. And understanding those results is important if you are serious about strengthening your bones. You need to understand exactly where you are NOW if you want to plant to be somewhere else in a year or so.

So let's get to it.
Ask for a copy of your test results. If You have not done so already, do call your health care provider and ask for a copy, a print out, of your dexa scan results and any accompanying images.
It really helps to see the test results, especially if they show the image with the light spots that show a lack ofbone density.

I always ask my health care provider for a copy so I can study it at home. I file my copies for each test so I can compare results from year to year. I find it very motivating to see changes.

Also, I know my health care provider has my best interests at heart but I figure I need time to study my health records. Sometimes reviewing them at home helps me figure out what questions I want to ask at my next appointment. Then too, having a copy of my records gives me a sense of security because I never have to worry that I misunderstood or forgot some number that was said during an office visit.

But you want to know how to read the report - what it all means.
First, the column marked BMD gives your bone mineral density - the number of grams per centimeter of bone. Numbers of +1.0 or above are good.

Second, the column marked T score shows how your bone mineral density compares with women in their thirties, the peak bone density years. Scores of +1.0 are good. Numbers between +1 and - 1 show normal bone mineral density.

Scores between -1 and -2.5 indicate Osteopenia (thin bones).
Less than -2.5 indicate Osteoporosis (porous bones) , eg. - 2.7, -3.0 etc. And -3.0 shows greater Osteoporosis than does - 2.7.

Third, the column marked Z score compares your bone mineral density with others of your own age.

Now, you may be thinking, "Well I am OK when compared with people my own age. Why should I care how I compare with 30 year olds?"

I made that mistake when I first began to get my dexa scan results. I figured, "My Z scores shows that I have better bone density that most of the women my age. Why should I worry about the T score."

But when I began to research the history of dexa scans and Osteopenia and Osteoporosis fracture, I realized thatthe T score was very important. You see, it is in our thirties that most of us reach peak bone mass. Andit is when we have peak bone mass that our bones are strongest and least likely to fracture. This group of people in theirthirties are less likely to break their hips or have their vertebrae collapse.

What good does it do us to have bones as strong as those in our age group ( the Z score), if our age group is showing a 40 or 50% fracture rate? The day I realized that it did me NO GOOD to be as good as most women my age, when most women my age were at high risk for fractures is the day I began to understand the importance of improving my T score.

Since that day, I have paid little attention to my Z scores. My aim has been to increase my BMD score and my T- score! And I am happy to say that I have done that. My last dexa scan showed NORMAL bone density!

You can increase your bone density too. This web site is filled with information about ways to increase your bone density.

If you would like to understand more about your dexa scan and how technicians read it, The University of Washington offers material for for technicians. You can view their tutorial about Dexa Scans [Opens in new window.]

[mellowsong]

Well dang...I made a long reply to Julieanne earlier...where did it go??? This has starting happening frequently lately :(

[Reesacat]

@Mellow: AWWW!
Can you keep a copy of your posts for future reference? Islander had that trouble for a few days and it happened to me also (think was server issue).

[mellowsong]

Ok, going to try to remember what I said earlier. I gave you the same link Reesacat did, lol.
1: How old are you if you don't mind saying?
2: Can you list each supplement and how much you take?: For example, mag citrate 1 cap 3X/day. I also understand, but not sure of this, that calcium supps should be taken apart from magnesium supps. You need to take twice as much Mg++ as Ca++.
3. I'd recommend adding Boron 3mg/day to your regimen.
4: If you can tolerate dairy and have access to raw milk, use that instead of calcium (especially if fermented)
5. Add at least 1 cup home made bone broth/day to your diet.

If diet and and supps are not making a difference (but I'd give it another year) you might consider Miacalcin (calcitonin). This is a hormone produced by the thyroid gland and is necessary for the proper utilization of phosphorus and calcium. This is what was used for osteoporosis prior to the poisonous biphosphonates. It is synthetic but the same as what your body produces from what I understand. I think going gluten free for many goes a very very long way in allowing the body to absorb and utilize the necessary nutrients.

[Julieanne]

Thank you Reesacat and Mellow for your helpful answers. Interesting about the Z scores. I will make a list and post tomorrow (do you mean everything?) I am sometimes a bit taken aback at the number of supps I take. My 7 yr old granddaughter was amazed when she saw me take my lunchtime pills!

[mellowsong]

Thank you Reesacat and Mellow for your helpful answers. Interesting about the Z scores. I will make a list and post tomorrow (do you mean everything?) I am sometimes a bit taken aback at the number of supps I take. My 7 yr old granddaughter was amazed when she saw me take my lunchtime pills!

I know what you mean...you should see mine, lol. Well, I was talking about what you use for osteoporosis, I'm sure that would be easier for you :)
@Reesacat: I need to just remember to copy before posting. This happened a while back. Not worried about it.

[Julieanne]

OK, here goes. I take one Enzymatic calcium, but the directions say I should take three. This would give me Vit D 400mg, calcium (from tricalcium phosphate, calc carbonate and calc gluconate) 1g, Phosphorous 240mg, Magnesium ( oxide and aspartate) 400mg. So I'm taking a third of all that.

Magnesium amino acid chelate 500mg x 1.

Triple boron (citrate, aspartate and glycinate) 3mg.

Vit D - was taking 5 000mg, recently upped it to 10 000mg.

Vit k2 100mcg x 1.

Thanks Mellow.

Oops! Forgot to say - I was 74 a week ago.

[mellowsong]

OK, here goes. I take one Enzymatic calcium, but the directions say I should take three. This would give me Vit D 400mg, calcium (from tricalcium phosphate, calc carbonate and calc gluconate) 1g, Phosphorous 240mg, Magnesium ( oxide and aspartate) 400mg. So I'm taking a third of all that.

Magnesium amino acid chelate 500mg x 1.

Triple boron (citrate, aspartate and glycinate) 3mg.

Vit D - was taking 5 000mg, recently upped it to 10 000mg.

Vit k2 100mcg x 1.

Thanks Mellow.

Oops! Forgot to say - I was 74 a week ago.

Happy Birthday!!!! :)
I hope my comments don't overwhelm you. Sometimes the teacher in me comes out and I get too wordy!!! I also realize you probably can't make all the changes right away and making one change at a time would be better because you can see how you react.

My first comment would be to ditch everything with aspartate in it. Asparatate is an excitotoxin with very similar properties to MSG/glutamate. The body makes what it needs. It is also known to cause GI distress.

Calcium: Calcium and magnesium should be taken separately because they go to the same receptor sites. (I looked this up to be sure I was remembering correctly). The other problem is the magnesium oxide which the body doesn't really absorb. It's great as a laxative but doesn't truly give you magnesium that your body can use. Oxide and carbonate should always be red flags as these are inorganic salts that the body can't absorb. Look for citrate, glycinate, orotate, chelated.

Magnesium: I would take magnesium to bowel tolerance. Because you already are having GI problems, do this very very slowly by adding no more than 1/2 tablet/day. Increase magnesium until you have diarrhea, then back off to where you don't. As your body builds up magnesium stores, the amount you need will gradually decrease. Most chelated magnesiums only give you 100mg of elemental magnesium which is very very very little. Total intake of calcium and magnesium should be at least a 1:1 ratio, preferably 1:2; twice as much elemental magnesium as elemental calcium. Otherwise calcium gets deposited in places it shouldn't and doesn't go to the bones.

Boron Again has aspartate

Vitamin D Do you know your D3 level? Going to 10,000IU/day is OK but I'd get levels checked in about 2 months. Are you taking it in the form of capsules or drops?

Vit K2 What form are you taking? Is it MK7 or a mixture? I am NOT advising this, lol..but the Japanese use a very high dose prescription K2 to treat osteoporosis. My understanding is that MK7 is the form best for bone health.

Sorry I wrote a book and feel free to ask any questions :)

[Maurya]

Ditto what Mellowsong wrote! In addition, it is important to remember that any excess intake of calcium will accumulate in the body, probably in places where it does not belong. Any excess intake of magnesium will just be excreted by the body, harming nothing at all beyond a very temporary experience with the toilet.

Elsewhere on the forum are many lists, comments, etc. as to the nearly worthless nature of Mg Oxide, Mg Carbonate, Mg Sulfate, Mg Chloride, and Mg Citrate for internal consumption. This is the reason that these forms of Mg are useful as laxatives! They are anywhere from 4% to about 18% absorbable, and so by the body's mechanism for getting rid of the excess that has not been assimilated, the large intestine becomes emptied quite quickly. Voila! Laxative!

[Aaltrude]

I take Magnesium Malate which you can add to the list of absorbable forms of Magnesium. Magnesium Malate is the preferred form of magnesium for anyone who has one of the Multi System Illnesses such as Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Multiple Chemical Sensitivity but especially for Fibromyalgia sufferers.

[Julieanne]

Thanks Mellow for all that information. I get all my supps from iherb, but as they take so long these days to deliver (6-7 weeks lately) I will continue with what I have and see what else they have in store. I am only taking around 33mg calcium, so not too much I think. I did a search for Calcitonin, and didn't like the sound of some of the side effects. What have you heard? Anything?

My appetite is really low right now, so probably not getting enough of anything.

Vit K2 says 'as Menaquinone'. I will check out MK7. And what is a 'high dose'?

Vit D are olive oil capsules. We are coming into summer now, so once I'm out and about in shorts I'll cut it down. But I'm not in the sun a lot - it is far too hot here and I can't stand it.

I was up on a ladder today, trimming ivy - very conscious of what might happen if I fell! It's near impossible to get anyone to help under $40 -50 an hour, so have to do these things myself.

[mellowsong]

@Julieanne: I know you're struggling to eat which isn't helping :( Menaquinone is MK-7 so you're fine there. Can you get your D3 level checked before cutting it back down? 25-(OH)D is the right test. You may need the 10,000IU for a while to get up to a good level. On the calcitonin nasal spray; When I ran a rehab unit, we used it some on patients with intractable pain from vertebral compression fractures. Most of them had significant pain relief in a fairly short time. I remember a few got runny noses and complained of nasal burning but I don't remember any major side effects happening. There's always the possibility of an allergic reaction I don't like the benzylkonium chloride in it. I don't remember major reactions but it was several years ago. I've been looking into it because endocrinology is very concerned about my past history of osteoporosis and wants to put me on an IV biphosphonate because I am on hydrocortisone for adrenal insufficiency and frequently take bursts of prednisone for asthma exacerbation. Steroids cause osteoporosis. I refused and he's letting it go til next dexa scan. I wanted some kind of alternative to present to him and remembered miacalcin. I'm just suggesting it as a possibility if things get worse. Numbers don't tell the whole story anyway. It took 2 years for my dietary and supplement changes to show a significant improvement. I was using raw milk dairy kefir too and I've never taken a calcium supplement.

[Katee]

Calcium: Calcium and magnesium should be taken separately because they go to the same receptor sites. (I looked this up to be sure I was remembering correctly).

Wait, wait, wait! Calcium and magnesium should not be taken together??? I never knew this, or if i did i forgot. Am i wasting my money buying the Mag/Cal supplement that is 2:1 that i thought was the good ratio? I should buy the two separately and take them different times of day?

[Aaltrude]

Wait, wait, wait! Calcium and magnesium should not be taken together???


Surely if we were able to get sufficient these nutrients as in our daily diet as nature intended, we would be eating calcium and magnesium together. It makes sense to me that our bodies must have some sort of adaption to deal with this. :confused:

[Aaltrude]

I am on hydrocortisone for adrenal insufficiency
Is Maca likely to be a suitable supplement to help with the adrenal insufficiency? I have been investigating Maca lately and note that although it does not contain any hormones it is said to be an excellent hormonal support for all hormone systems in our body.
http://www.doctorsaredangerous.com/articles/maca.htm

[mellowsong]

Is Maca likely to be a suitable supplement to help with the adrenal insufficiency? I have been investigating Maca lately and note that although it does not contain any hormones it is said to be an excellent hormonal support for all hormone systems in our body.
http://www.doctorsaredangerous.com/articles/maca.htm

Aaltrude, it won't work for me. My pituitary is not producing the hormone needed to tell the adrenal glands to make cortisol. I have complete adrenal insufficiency; well past adrenal fatigue. I would die without hydrocortisone :( I know maca is good for sex hormones, not familiar with its use for things like adrenal fatigue, but it could be.

[mellowsong]

Wait, wait, wait! Calcium and magnesium should not be taken together??? I never knew this, or if i did i forgot. Am i wasting my money buying the Mag/Cal supplement that is 2:1 that i thought was the good ratio? I should buy the two separately and take them different times of day?

Katee, I honestly don't know. This was something said over and over in the nutrition groups I belonged to for a while. When I looked it up I'm basically finding that recommendation came from one author of Alkalize or Die and lots of others jumped on the bandwagon. The reasoning is that they go to the same receptor sites. I probably shouldn't have said anything because, the more I think about it, I have to wonder. They work synergistically in the body; and present together in many foods. If you go back to the hunter-gatherer concept, I'm sure there was no separation. I think just do what works for you and I'm sorry I caused confusion (although I confused myself too :) Anyway, I always take my magnesium with meals and those meals include dairy kefir and bone broth, both very good sources of absorbable calcium and I still managed to reverse osteoporosis!

[Maurya]

If it were me taking a calcium supplement or a magnesium supplement, I definitely would take the calcium in the morning, and the magnesium (in greater amount than the calcium) throughout the rest of the day and evening. They both are needed, and do work together, but are used and stored within the body in very different ways. The calcium tends to hang around longer than does the magnesium, and the magnesium requirements tend to vary quite a bit, depending on things happening in one's life. (Life is what happens while we are making other plans.) A good well-absorbed form of magnesium is great for a sleep aid, when taken a half hour or so before bed time.

[Julieanne]

Mellow, I'm unsure here whether you are referring to calcium or magnesium?



Calcium: Calcium and magnesium should be taken separately because they go to the same receptor sites. (I looked this up to be sure I was remembering correctly). The other problem is the magnesium oxide which the body doesn't really absorb. It's great as a laxative but doesn't truly give you magnesium that your body can use. Oxide and carbonate should always be red flags as these are inorganic salts that the body can't absorb. Look for citrate, glycinate, orotate, chelated.



I don't want to buy the wrong thing again, so need to get it right.

[Islander]

Wait for Mellow, but I think those are forms of magnesium.

[mellowsong]

Mellow, I'm unsure here whether you are referring to calcium or magnesium? I don't want to buy the wrong thing again, so need to get it right.

In this case, I was referring to magnesium. Make sure you do not get magnesium carbonate or oxide. Mag citrate is not as well absorbed as the other organic salts (glycinate, orotate, chelated, malate etc) but is cheaper than the other forms.

[Aaltrude]

In this case, I was referring to magnesium. Make sure you do not get magnesium carbonate or oxide. Mag citrate is not as well absorbed as the other organic salts (glycinate, orotate, chelated, malate etc) but is cheaper than the other forms.

The Source Naturals Magnesium Malate I am now getting from iherb costs less per dose than the Solgar Magnesium Citrate I was using before I switched to the malate form which Dr Pall recommends for the Multi System Illnesses

[Julieanne]

In this case, I was referring to magnesium.

I thought so, but wanted to be sure, as you headed it 'calcium'. So what, in your view, is the best form of calcium? Is it available in other than carbonate form?

Thanks for all the answers Mellow.

Aaltrude, I saw a Source Naturals mag citrate and malate at iherb - didn't see malate on its own. I'll look again.

[mellowsong]

I thought so, but wanted to be sure, as you headed it 'calcium'. So what, in your view, is the best form of calcium? Is it available in other than carbonate form? Thanks for all the answers Mellow. Aaltrude, I saw a Source Naturals mag citrate and malate at iherb - didn't see malate on its own. I'll look again.

Here's the mag malate from Iherb: http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Magnesium-Malate-1-250-mg-360-Tablets/19154?at=0

On the calcium, I was referring to your supplement which had both calcium and magnesium in it trying to explain why it wasn't a good choice :)

Calcium is readily available as calcium citrate. I've also seen elemental calcium but not by itself. Basically, stay away from carbonate, dolomite and coral calciums.

[mellowsong]

This article is too far off to let it stand so here goes:
Salt: The author is more than correct in talking about limiting processed foods. I won't even go into unprocessed sea salt vs table salt. As to the rest, you simply cannot pick 2 things like salt and calcium and randomly compare what happens with varying intake without taking a million other confounding variables into account. The key is BALANCE! The vast majority of women eating SAD and thus high salt, are woefully deficient in magnesium and all other minerals/nutrients involved in bone building. What was their Vitamin D intake? Close to zilch I imagine. Most likely, the women who had lower salt intake had much higher magnesium intake because they were eating a more whole foods diet and therefore getting more nutrients. This is conjecture because I don't have the study to look at. Bottom line is that although the bones have more calcium than anything else, it is not really the determinate factor in bone health. Eat a whole food diet, get lots of vitamin D and magnesium and probably salt won't matter much. If your diet is correct, the body won't be pulling calcium from the bones and excreting it in order to balance all the other minerals.

Caffeine The only reason for this effect that I can find is caffeine's diuretic effect. When you urinate, you do lose minerals in the urine. Adequate fluid and mineral intake, in the absence of kidney disease or pituitary problems, usually negates this effect. Again, the women studied were most likely eating SAD and woefully deficient in nutrients. 6mg is minuscule and I can't see how it could result in bone loss unless someone was consuming upwards of 600mg/caffeine per day with no calcium intake.

Vitamin A If looked at only from the standpoint of Vitamin A intake, it does appear to weaken bones. What was not considered was Vitamin D. In an A:D ratio greater than 10:1, Vitamin A definitely can cause problems. Her advice on how to fix the Vitamin A problem is outrageous: What to do: Switch to low-fat or nonfat dairy products only, and eat egg whites rather than whole eggs (all the vitamin A is in the yolk). Also check your multivitamin, and if it’s high in vitamin A, switch to one that isn’t.

I really hate studies/articles that draw conclusions from spurious data and too many variables unaccounted for.