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Thread: Doctors test new way to regulate warfarin dose

  1. #1
    Administrator Islander's Avatar
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    Default Doctors test new way to regulate warfarin dose

    Wed Feb 18, 2009

    BOSTON (Reuters) - A new system for predicting the proper dose of the blood thinner warfarin could help doctors do a better job of preventing dangerous blood clots and serious bleeding, researchers reported on Wednesday.
    Some patients needed more than twice the weekly dose than others did, the study showed, and the new test better predicted who needed more and who needed less.
    Correct dosing of warfarin is critical -- the drug, sold under brand names including Coumadin, is based on rat poison and can prevent blood clots. But too high a dose and a patient can bleed to death, while too low a dose can cause strokes or heart attacks as clots form.
    The international research team led by Dr. Teri Klein of Stanford University in California took clinical and genetic information from 4,043 patients to create a computer algorithm predicting who would need a higher or lower dose.
    The new approach is called pharmacogenetics -- using patient's genetic variations to predict their response to drugs.
    Writing in the New England Journal of Medicine, the researchers said they tested this algorithm in 1,009 other people.
    "The ... algorithm accurately identified larger proportions of patients who required 21 mg of warfarin or less per week and of those who required 49 mg or more per week," they wrote.
    About 30 million prescriptions for the drug are written in the United States each year and repeated testing to assess clotting time is needed to find the right dose. The safest dose for one person may be 10 times higher than the best dose for someone else.
    The National Institutes of Health is about to launch a large-scale test with 1,200 volunteers to see if the new system works better.
    "This has the potential of getting one genomic test up front and then starting off closer to the final dose early on, decreasing the amount of time and nuisance for repeated testing to get to the right dose," Dr. Jeremy Berg, director of the National Institute of General Medical Sciences, which sponsored the study, said in a telephone interview.
    "Pharmacogenetics has the potential to increase benefit and reduce harm in people whose drug responses are not 'average'," The U.S. Food and Drug Administration's Dr. Janet Woodcock and Lawrence Lesko wrote in a commentary.
    (Reporting by Gene Emery; Editing by Maggie Fox and David Wiessler)

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    Administrator Islander's Avatar
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    Default Re: Doctors test new way to regulate warfarin dose

    Nattokinase appears to be an acceptable natural alternative to Coumadin, with no adverse side effects. Google it (but be aware of any hype on the part of those who sell it; here's an objective review: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16899918
    Last edited by Islander; 06-20-10 at 05:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Doctors test new way to regulate warfarin dose

    Excerpt from a blog comment:
    By calling Nattokinase a "scam", one implies that current medical treatment is superior or less dangerous. It encourages people on Coumadin to continue this dangerous drug, which has led to untold morbidity and mortality--and we won't go into the manufacturing debacles from China. We really should not be comparing Coumadin/Warfarin (a product of the laboratory) with Nattokinase. Coumadin and Warfarin do NOT dissolve blood clots. They simply prevent them from enlarging/prevent new clots, while the clots (hopefully) stabilize and do not embolize. After stabilization of a clot against the vessel wall, one must exercise to increase plasmin in the blood in order to significantly affect breakdown. Doctors DO NOT inform patients that Coumadin is not a fibrinolytic. Most patients on Coumadin believe that Coumadin is breaking down their clots. Nattokinase supports the plasmin realm, working the way the body naturally does, to gradually break down clot constituents--no emboli are created. ("-ase" indicates enzyme) Some other enzymes and enzyme products can have anti-inflammatory properties, such as those naturally occuring in foods, those in the famous Wobenzym, and those in a number of digestive enzyme products absorbed through the gut. Inflammation is a key factor in preventing aberrant clots. But taking laboratory products, rather than foods or food derivatives, is what gets us in trouble. We do not have the full knowledge of synergy in foods and conventional doctors tend to dismiss, rather than respect, what is unknown. Synergy is why eating "live" food is so important. I will stand by Hippocrates--"Let your food be your medicine and your medicine your food."

    Read the thorough discussion here: http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/20...nase-scam.html

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    Veteran Member mellowsong's Avatar
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    Default Re: Doctors test new way to regulate warfarin dose

    Coumadin KILLS approximately 8000 people in the US each year from uncontrollable bleeding. I was on Coumadin for over 9 years after having blood clots in both lungs. They found I have a genetic clotting disorder. When I turned to natural health, I never imagined Coumadin was going to be one of the drugs I stopped, but something very strange happened. As I turned to eating only whole foods, lots of veggies etc, my dose of Coumadin needed to be increased exponentially. When I started I was very stable on 4mg/day. By the time I stopped it I was up to 12mg/day, vomiting, sores all over my arms and unimaginable bone pain, especially in my feet. I researched for days and many many hours and settled on Nattokinase as an acceptable alternative, along with several other things such as fish oil, garlic, ginseng and Vitamin E.

    I dropped the nattokinase due to expense and began taking 1000mg of Vitamin E per day. I recently read that high dose Vitamin E (800+mg/day) anticoagulates exactly the way Coumadin does, by antagonizing Vitamin K. I realized that the sores and bone pain had been back a long time and the lightbulb went off. I am back on nattokinase and am happy to report that the bone pain is easing and the sores are healing. They don't tell patients on Coumadin that it can take up to NINE years to replenish Vitamin K after stopping long term use. They don't tell you it contributes to osteoporosis and idiopathic fractures.

    Nattokinase (from fermented soy natto) and lumbrokinase (from earthworms) and a few other "kinases" work like heparin, by dissolving fibrin if clots occur, and preventing them in the first place. Needless to say, they are much safer than heparin, which must be injected. Adulterated heparin from China has killed a few hundred people in the US so far...how many people have the kinases killed?

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    Default Re: Doctors test new way to regulate warfarin dose

    Further, they don't tell you that Coumadin does NOT bust up existing clots, though patients are left to assume it does. Nattokinase does.

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    Veteran Member Samurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Doctors test new way to regulate warfarin dose

    Quote Originally Posted by mellowsong
    As I turned to eating only whole foods, lots of veggies etc, my dose of Coumadin needed to be increased exponentially. When I started I was very stable on 4mg/day. By the time I stopped it I was up to 12mg/day, vomiting, sores all over my arms and unimaginable bone pain, especially in my feet. I researched for days and many many hours and settled on Nattokinase as an acceptable alternative, along with several other things such as fish oil, garlic, ginseng and Vitamin E.
    Mellowsong, why did you have to increase the dose after having gone natural?

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    Veteran Member mellowsong's Avatar
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    Default Re: Doctors test new way to regulate warfarin dose

    Coumadin is a Vitamin K antagonist. Vitamin K plays a key role in blood clotting but also has a lot of other important functions in the body. Plants have a lot of Vitamin K1, plus I was eating/drinking a lot of lacto-fermented foods. The bacteria produce K2 both in the drink and in your intestine. Therefore, everything I ate was antagonizing the Coumadin. I'm a lot better off without rat poison anyway but it still freaks all the docs at the VA out. They are waiting for me to drop dead from more blood clots...sometimes I think they are disappointed that I seem fine

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    Default Re: Doctors test new way to regulate warfarin dose

    Mellowsong, you go girl-outlive their sorry asses!

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    Default Re: Doctors test new way to regulate warfarin dose

    My aunt is still on Warfarin and she will not listen to me about it. My 80 year old mom said my aunt is nuts for taking the crap. My aunt has read the articles that Islander gave me and she still will not listen. I totally gave up on her... I call her each week to check in and only hear of complaints of aches and pains and how depressed she is. I just sit and listen....

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    Veteran Member Aaltrude's Avatar
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    Default Re: Doctors test new way to regulate warfarin dose

    Oh Grandma, been there. It makes it difficult doesn't it when you know all you will hear is complaints and they don't try to help themselves.

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    Default Re: Doctors test new way to regulate warfarin dose

    Even Dr. Mercola, in an old video I ran across, complains that despite the fact that he is a medical doctor and a best-selling author, his family will not listen to him. So don't feel too bad! You could hang your PhD diploma around your neck and it wouldn't change any minds!

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    Veteran Member mellowsong's Avatar
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    Default Re: Doctors test new way to regulate warfarin dose

    Quote Originally Posted by Grandma
    My aunt is still on Warfarin and she will not listen to me about it. My 80 year old mom said my aunt is nuts for taking the crap. My aunt has read the articles that Islander gave me and she still will not listen. I totally gave up on her... I call her each week to check in and only hear of complaints of aches and pains and how depressed she is. I just sit and listen....
    Grandma, I don't think you can change her mind...but sometimes there are successes. My sister has the same clotting disorder I do and had pulmonary emboli in October. She spent several days on Heparin in the hospital and of course was discharged with Coumadin. She knew I had successfully dumped the Coumadin, so with my support and the support of her chiropractor she too got off the Coumadin and is taking nattokinase. Natto is a godsend for both of us because it is helpful in CFIDS(me) and fibromyalgia (my sister) as well as anticlotting (rather due to it's effect on fibrin).

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