When to Just say "No More" to Authority....

[EmmaPeel]

I found this to be as relevant to anything that pertains to making personal health decisions than anything I have ever experienced.... When do you say "no more" ....When do you say "enough"?.... When do you say " I know this is not good for me no matter what that Authority says!"

The horrific events of the sweat lodge tragedy in Arizona speaks to the most important questions anyone will ever ask themselves...when to listen to yourself and your body, and recognize that what you are being told by an authority 'figure' has the potential to kill you, or those you love.

Sheer rigorous mind programing occurs everyday in the media. It breeds a trajectory of blind faith in an Authority Figure as someone who knows you better than you know yourself. The AF knows what is good for you...if you reject the AF, or question the AF, you are a deviant, a radical, sacriligious, even dangerous.


http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/arizon...ory?id=8886102


...I suppose this can also be applied to Samurai's thread on Marathon deaths...
What made those runners run themselves to death? In the Ironman in Kelowna, British Columbia this past August, one runner collapsed near the finish line and died...

I guess the questions I would ask myself would be..."...where have you drawn the line in the sand?
Where is the line between healthy growth and indoctrination into something that might harm or kill me drawn...?" The tragic thing is that all those individuals, except one I believe, remained in an environment even when they knew they had symptoms that were very, very dangerous...

[Samurai]

I was raised in a household where if you were to question my father such as "back-talking" you were slapped, spanked, grounded or some other method of punishment. That you were right, or wrong did not matter; questioning authority had severe, and swift consequences. Till the day I moved away from home at the age of eighteen I would fight back, and continue to question him.
Today, I have the same attitide; I question everything. But I no longer fear being grounded or hit..... I only fear not being heard.
Not listening to one's inner "spirit" is very dangerous. If something seems wrong, it probably is.

[EmmaPeel]

I was raised in a household where if you were to question my father such as "back-talking" you were slapped, spanked, grounded or some other method of punishment. That you were right, or wrong did not matter; questioning authority had severe, and swift consequences. Till the day I moved away from home at the age of eighteen I would fight back, and continue to question him.
Today, I have the same attitide; I question everything. But I no longer fear being grounded or hit..... I only fear not being heard.
Not listening to one's inner "spirit" is very dangerous. If something seems wrong, it probably is.

Ditto here, Samarai. Thank you for sharing this. I had a father too who was from the generation that if you even opened your mouth to protest, ask for explanation or even looked the wrong way, you regretted it. I guess the only good thing to come out of a childhood like this was that I too, learned to question authority, but not immediately. It took many years of fear and intimidation even after I moved out, before I realized that questioning everything and having my own opinion was good and even welcomed...go figure!!

I can only imagine what might have been going on in the minds of all those unfortunate people who remained in an environment that nearly, or did, kill them. The days or weeks prior of mind 'programming', in my opinion, had everything to do with it in Arizona.

BTW, in my opinion, the marathon runner 'programs' themselves. They are their own AF...!!
They use adrenaline, endorphins, and a profound ability to push through pain using the mind. I am not a runner, but I know those who are, and they will tell you it is all in the mind. They get to know their bodies well,
and they believe the principle that the body can overcome its limitations. Sadly, some of the runners we hear of suffer from sudden death due to heat exhaustion or cardiac overload.

The fatal problem is that the mind can no longer differentiate between what will cause death as judgment becomes profoundly impaired. True for marathon runners, sweat lodge participants
and average people who are undernourished and heavily reliant on the opinion of the government (the Ultimate AF).

[Grandma]

Emma
Last night I was speaking with a young lady who has 2 boys. One almost 4 and the other 15 mos. Old.
She indicated that she had gotten the boys their flu shot. I just shook my head and told her I did not believe in flu shots. She then told me, whatever her Pediatrician tells her to do she is going to do for the boys. Telling her how I survived all these years on only one flu shot and 3 vaccines and I am not 59 and still alive without meds. I walked away. I realized she is brainwashed by her doctor and cannot think for herself.

Those people in Arizona should have never been there in the first place. The guy was only after what money he could get. So, let these people pay 9K for a scam like that. I will spend it on 2 vacations and see Sedona and the red rocks and do a bit of hiking and be surrounded by all the nature I want.

[Maurya]

Some other "take home lessons" that can be learned from an authoritarian upbringing might be:

Learning to be very astute at picking up on the unsaid dictates that guide the child into knowing immediately what behavior will or will not result in losing one's "happy home", at least for a while.

Learning to mimic just the "right" inflections of "gratefulness" for any crumbs of affection that might fall, with the hope of not losing one's "happy home", at least for a while.

Although I could go on, the general theme is that parental love (or the approval of some authority figure) is completely conditional. Neither the thoughts, nor the opinions, nor the internal mental state (happiness or otherwise) of the kid is anything to be considered by those in power. When one "grows up" to what we laughingly call adulthood, it is easy to assimilate the knowledge that self determination is a good thing, but is not so easy to really understand and internalize the way of living that true self determination would entail. Once a person grows and tunes those antennae in childhood, it becomes almost impossible to turn down the noise of mostly disapproval being received from one's fellow human beings.

[EmmaPeel]

I agree Grandma. I'd rather spend the money hiking in the red hills and seeing the sites! Yes, it sounds like the woman you were talking is entrenched in fear and has rarely questioned authority. She does what she is told is good for her. I wonder if this is mostly still a female thing these days? Or is it something ingrained, as I think Mauyra implies, from childhood much like these sweat lodge participants?

I am not so sure I 100% agree with Mauyra's statement about never being ever able to really readjust your childhood antenae once you become an adult...

I think it takes focused hard work for each individual themselves... education, responsibility, affirmation, and a deep sense of self fulfillment that you are worthy and deserving of better that makes for healthy adult decision.

Having said that, when an individual goes into a situation where they are 'mind programmed' to believe wholley and completely in an authority figure, I think it would be very, very difficult to walk out and away from danger...but it can be done.

We are the examples right here.

[Islander]

Just here to say that I was one of those children, and that I left home at 17, just as soon as I could get out.

[Maurya]

Just here to say that I was one of those children, and that I left home at 17, just as soon as I could get out.

Yes, indeed, leaving is good! Many friends, and even my husband, have pointed out all that I have missed by not staying in one place for decades at a time. But it all balances out over all. Look at all of the varied experiences I would have missed out on if I had stayed in one place. And perhaps, eventually, I might learn to live life a bit more for myself...

[EmmaPeel]

I think that those people in the sweat lodge who 'got out'...who made a conscious decision to 'survive' and to live on their own terms, to struggle against the ridicule, to question the 'rules', .......who realized that what was happening in their immediate environment had to change in order for them to live, are probably the one's who screamed for help and dragged those who could no longer speak for themselves out.

It really is a metaphor for life isn't it? We are the one's screaming for those who are unconscious. Everyone here on this website is fighting strong for those who are living in a "fog of lies".

Anyone who spends $10,000 to spend a week with someone they believe will cleanse and save them is definitely living in "some serious nor'easter pea soup" as they say in Nova Scotia ....