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Aaltrude
07-08-12, 02:29 AM
July 7, 2012,
By MARK BITTMAN

Drinking milk is as American as Mom and apple pie. Until not long ago, Americans were encouraged not only by the lobbying group called the American Dairy Association but by parents, doctors and teachers to drink four 8-ounce glasses of milk, “nature’s perfect food,” every day. That’s two pounds! We don’t consume two pounds a day of anything else; even our per capita soda consumption is “only” a pound a day.
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But in addition to intolerance, there’s a milk allergy — the second most common food allergy after peanuts, affecting an estimated 1.3 million children — that can be life-threatening.

Read more: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/07/got-milk-you-dont-need-it/

mellowsong
07-08-12, 09:51 AM
While this article has some good points, some of the argument is asinine! Milk is approximately 88% water, so talking about its weight is ridiculous. I think dairy tolerance, like just about everything else, is individual. If you have symptoms switch to raw milk (or low temp pasteurized) from 100% grass fed cows. Still have symptoms give it up. A lot of the problem with conventional milk is the antibiotics and hormones, along with heat actually changing the protein. Yes, drinking large quantities of milk give a sugar load but aged cheeses and fermented (HOME fermented, not store bought) have very little sugar. Most yogurt you buy is a farce. It's been fermented just a few hours, the loaded with thickeners. There aren't enough live organisms to make much difference.

Aaltrude
07-08-12, 04:10 PM
One comment in this article though is spot on. Those countries with the highest dairy consumption also have the highest incidence of osteoporosis. To me this fact alone is very telling. I go along with the point of view that milk is for the infant animal, not the adult.

highlander
07-08-12, 11:57 PM
I recently saw a photo of a kid (human) nursing from a cow. I wish I had saved it because it was so weird looking.

Katee
07-09-12, 01:54 AM
I like milk. I like cream. I like butter. I like cheese. I like cottage cheese. I tolerate yogurt. I purchase the milk, cream, butter and cheese raw almost all the time and the other two i rarely eat. I don't think that it is a problem. For some it is. Not going to convince me that (raw, pastured) milk is 100% bad for 100% of the population.

As a (mostly) vegetarian, it is a prime source of animal product for me.

Julieanne
07-09-12, 06:56 AM
How odd that the milk was measured in 'pounds', not pints! Very strange.

Islander
07-09-12, 09:17 AM
The reference to pounds in the article may have been to make a point, but in dairies milk is measured in pounds, always has been. Maybe that's because weight is easier to measure than fluid indicators, like gallons? A cow's production has always been measured in pounds of milk.

Long story, try to shorten it. Largest dairy farmer in state of Maine, 4000 head, lives not far from me, has rented over 1600 acres in my town growing RR corn. Researched him, found he sells to Agrimark, biggest co-op in N'east. Where does most of Agrimark's milk go? Cabot cheese. Rest of it? To other processors ...which means any dairy I buy may come from cows who are fed GM corn. And I'll bet that's true everywhere. So...I have a source of raw organic milk, butter, cheese. I've begun making my own sour cream, yoghurt, cottage cheese. It's easy, tastes better, why have I not always done it? (Did it years ago when we had milk cows). And I'm fairly confident that my own 2 patches of organic heirloom corn are far enough away from the GM fields to avoid contamination.

highlander
07-10-12, 01:03 AM
Katee and Islander I'm jealous of your raw milk, cream, cheese and butter. In Colorado one has to purchase part ownership in a cow in order to get raw milk which I wouldn't mind doing if it were local and affordable but the last time I checked I'd have to pay about $40 per month for one gallon per week and drive about four hours round trip each week to get it. Boo.

mellowsong
07-10-12, 09:52 AM
I think I miss dairy longer than I ever missed grains, lol. I had access to raw milk and drank it for 4 years (as kefir)...then my body decided it didn't like it anymore. Didn't have access to raw cheese but I did to low temp pasteurized. I agree with Katee that dairy, especially raw, from grass fed cows can't be bad for 100% of the population. I believe kefir played a huge role in reversing osteoporosis and healing my gut.

Katee
07-10-12, 11:44 AM
I do have access to it, but i pay a high price. The milk i prefer (there are two dairies here in CA; one bottles in glass, the other plastic) runs close to $20 a gallon. A pint of cream from either dairy is over $10. So while i use it, i don't use a lot. It isn't available in my town, either. However, we travel off the mountain often enough i can get it without making a special trip. There is a lady here in town who will go buy it, but my usage of dairy varies significantly. I don't want to buy a lot and then not use it.

So, on occasion, if i really want cream but am not somewhere i can get the good stuff, i will buy organic, pasteurized cream. Or if it is being used to bake/cook i will use pasteurized milk as i don't want to use the expensive, "good stuff" for something that won't have the good bacteria anyway.

Islander
07-10-12, 01:46 PM
Katee, that's jaw-dropping. I pay $7/gal. for raw organic. And you do know you can freeze it, right? I never use an entire gallon fast enough; I freeze it in one-cup amounts so it's ready measured for recipes or whatever.

Reesacat
09-25-12, 06:42 AM
Milk makes many people sick. I am one of them.

Islander
09-25-12, 10:39 AM
Some people also feel strongly that milk is an infant food and that traditionally, children were weaned by the age of 5 at the latest.

sollyb
09-25-12, 11:40 AM
Just a comment: I have read that some people who cannot tolerate raw milk or even pasteurized milk do well with ultra-pasteurized milk. Maybe due to the (I am guessing) further altered proteins? My son was allergic to milk in infancy and toddlerhood but could eat tons of cheese with no problems. His pediatrician at the time speculated it was due to the altered proteins.

I am currently in the state of mind that I am not about to give up dairy, but I have some mild problems from milk (mucous in throat), and have gone back to goat milk, ultrapasteurized. So far it does seem to cause much less problem. Too bad it costs $16 per gallon instead of the $3.29 per gallon that regular cow's milk costs. I'd like to try Organic Valley milk but can't get it here. (I can only get mail order powdered organic valley milk)

Islander
09-25-12, 12:22 PM
I have the reverse notion: that the more pasteurized, the fewer health-promoting substances remain from the original product. Ew.

Jane Chitty
09-25-12, 01:32 PM
Our local Farmers Market here in the centre of Cape Town supplies us with butter from raw milk (only a little more expensive than normal butter) and has recently been offering raw milk. This works out about twice the cost of regular milk but it is brought in from quite a distance. We only have milk in sauces and on oats etc so it lasts several days. I used to drink a glass of milk every morning for breakfast until about 15 years ago when I suddenly could not stand the thought of it any more - made me feel I was going to gag and that is when I changed to black tea with lemon. Both my granddaughters seem to have developed an allergy to dairy and do not have it any more - but of course it could be what is in the pasturised dairy products.

mellowsong
09-25-12, 02:48 PM
This is off the top of my memory and may not be 100% correct but:
Studies have shown that protein from ultra pasteurized milk is not absorbed as well as that from pasteurized. Serum nitrogen is higher however after consumption of ultra pasteurized vs pasteurized which would indicate the proteins are denatured (chemical bonds broken). All heat treatment (pasteurization and ultra pasteurization) only affects whey protein, not casein. There is much more loss of nutrients when milk is ultra pasteurized. Heat treatments make the B12 present in milk unavailable for absorption. Ultra pasteurization effectively sterilizes the milk. No bacteria can survive the temps used.

Something else that needs to be thrown into the mix is A1 vs A2 beta-casein. A2 is the original casein protein present in milk yet virtually all grocery store milk, organic included, comes from Holsteins which are completely A1. The more A2, the better most people tolerate the milk.

Aaltrude
09-25-12, 03:12 PM
but I have some mild problems from milk (mucous in throat)
This was the early warning I had that I could not tolerate milk sollyb. It has now reached a point where I feel quite ill if I consume milk.


The more A2, the better most people tolerate the milk.
Initially I did better with A2 milk but now I do not tolerate either A1 or A2.

mellowsong
09-25-12, 06:12 PM
Initially I did better with A2 milk but now I do not tolerate either A1 or A2. I did fine with raw milk kefir from Jersey cows (they have a lot of A2) for nearly 4 years. After all that time, I started getting serious sinus congestion with it. I stopped for a month or more 3 or 4 times before I convinced myself I really was reacting and went dairy free altogether. I started having problems with cheese about a year before having issues with milk. The cheese was Kerry Gold Dubliner...which is from grass fed cows in Ireland but the breed they use is mostly A1 like Holsteins.

Islander
09-25-12, 09:17 PM
Speaking of which, I buy the Kerry Gold butterwhen I can get it, but their cheese is $11-12/lb., out of my range!

mellowsong
09-25-12, 10:44 PM
Speaking of which, I buy the Kerry Gold butterwhen I can get it, but their cheese is $11-12/lb., out of my range!

I'm no longer near a Costco but they sold 2 lb blocks for $10.99. There's not a Costco here but my daughter said Sam's sells it for about that price. Don't know how far you live from either of those but I'm sure quite a ways but maybe next time you go somewhere, you could get some.

Maurya
09-26-12, 09:00 AM
I am having a Costco withdrawal problem, as well. Surprising how dependent I had become on going to that store for reasonably priced, wholesome food!

Islander
09-26-12, 09:49 AM
Hah. There are no Costcos in Maine.

mellowsong
09-26-12, 01:39 PM
Hah. There are no Costcos in Maine.

Do they at least have a Sam's Club? I miss Costco. They had a fair amount of organic stuff. Although I've yet to go into Sam's (partly due to aversion to WalMart, lol), I've been told they don't have much.

Islander
09-26-12, 04:59 PM
Yes, there's a Sam's Club an hours drive away. We had a business membership back when we had a business, but even then you had to be aware of the market, because not all their pricing was a bargain. In terms of consumer goods, like food items, shampoo, laundry stuff, most was in bulk packs (e.g. 6 bags, 8 boxes) and there was very little that I used. I suppose a large family who ate the SAD could save some bux....