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mellowsong
11-11-07, 02:44 PM
I'm asking for some help here from you very knowledgeable folks. A certain person in mercola is now claiming stevia is bad.
"
Concentrated stevioside, industrially used, of 160 times the sweetness of sugar or above, is made in a very similar distillant and chemical concentration and purification process, if not identical used in extraction cocaine from cocoa leaves, and the distilliants are CARCINOGENIC.

Anyone claiming pure white stevia of these concentration or higher is all natural are either extreme naive, ill informed, or lying, or all three. "

Can somebody tell me if this is true? I was under the impression that stevia was basically dissolved in alcohol, filtered, diluted and bottled as a liquid or dried to powder. HELP....I use stevia in my kombucha, kefir smoothies and water kefir. I don't want to start being afraid of it too!!!!

PPARGammaGirl
11-11-07, 03:19 PM
A general search on stevia purity finds China getting in on the supply act.:eek:

I had a look at stevia extraction patents and the methods seem quite variable. Some use ethanol and some use an “extraction solvent”. I imagine it would be almost impossible to find out from a supplement manufacturer where and how their supply was made. Maybe organic would be okay. There is also the issue that stevia is used in tiny amounts, and probably contains less solvent (if any) than the average supplement. I don’t use stevia – I didn’t much like the taste, and don’t have a sweet tooth anyway.

I rarely sweeten anything, but when I do I use glucose (dextrose) powder. So long as it has fat in it the GI is not high – and is no different from the glucose you get when a carrot or potato breaks down (but without the vitamins). Glucose is perfectly natural to the body – just not in large amounts. Fructose on the other hand (the evil twin of glucose in sucrose) is not natural to the body in anything over very small amounts, which is why the cells of the body cannot use it for energy (apart from a certain type of breast cancer). I think humans evolved to eat seasonal fruit as a way to store fat over the winter.

mellowsong
11-11-07, 04:10 PM
Thanks Gamma Girl, but that leads to another question. Would using glucose feed yeast if you have a yeast problem? I'm not even supposed to have root veggies like carrots or beets on this diet unless fermented. Because I ferment my kefir long enough to make sure the lactose is gone, it it quite tart. I don't mind day old kefir without sweetener, but, lol. Same thing with the water kefir and kombucha, I ferment extra long to get rid of the sugar, hence the need to resweeten :( I sure wish my stevia plant would grow, it just barely stays alive, lol.

Islander
11-11-07, 04:24 PM
Patty, unless he's on a tear again, this is a Russ excerpt from an argument I had with him some weeks back. I maintained stevia was the only safe sugar substitute and he was all over me, in successive posts. All he would do was deny, deny, and I kept prodding him to give me specifics. Finally he broke down and did make the claims you see. Either you found that conversation, or he is on a tear again. I think he may have reason to fear claims that stevia is a safe alernative.

From all I know, stevia is just fine. Certainly the Peruvians have been using it for thousands of years, and other South Americans and Japanese have been using a processed form for a long long time. RB is in the food business and among the products he handles are sweeteners (think about that) and meats (and I'm guessing nothing in his inventory is organic or grass-fed!) He is a two-faced, puffed-up dinkeldorf. I use stevia at least once a day (smoothie) and sometimes more (yogurt) with absolutely no ill effects.

About the flavor or aftertaste: I had to sample several products before I found one with none of the above. The NOW brand of stevia EXTRACT is about as pure as it gets. Yes, others do have a blechy taste that food cannot disguise. A brand called SWEETLEAF offers flavored stevias that are really tasty but about double the price of the NOW brand. All of these are liquids, BTW, in glass bottle with eyedropper.

Hope that helps!

PPARGammaGirl
11-11-07, 07:08 PM
Thanks Gamma Girl, but that leads to another question. Would using glucose feed yeast if you have a yeast problem? I'm not even supposed to have root veggies like carrots or beets on this diet unless fermented. Because I ferment my kefir long enough to make sure the lactose is gone, it it quite tart. I don't mind day old kefir without sweetener, but, lol. Same thing with the water kefir and kombucha, I ferment extra long to get rid of the sugar, hence the need to resweeten :( I sure wish my stevia plant would grow, it just barely stays alive, lol.

I have to admit I haven't read JM's metabolic type book so I don't know what science it is based on. I eat low carb, but don't restrict myself to type of veg - I can't see why the glucose from a potato is any different from the glucose from anywhere else (including an unadulterated slice of white bread). The GI list is very misleading. For one thing it measures each food item singly and doesn't account for mixed meals. Fat practically halves the GI of most carbs. For some reason blood glucose rises much more after breakfast than lunch or dinner. Stress also increases blood glucose after any given meal, which is why it is important to eat in a relaxed setting. Insulin can also spike when protein only is eaten for breakfast even though there is no corresponding glucose spike (i.e. gluconeogenesis) – suggesting that they don’t fully understand these mechanisms very well at all. I also don’t believe any diet should be too restrictive – the enjoyment of food should be a big part of eating. The candida issue is another conundrum; is candida a problem because something else is wrong or is candida the primary problem? I’m inclined to believe the former. I believe bacteria/mycoplasma/fungi etc only become pathogenic in the human body because of a problem and not the other way around. I think a low carb diet is good for lots of sound physiological reasons besides trying to starve the yeasty beasties. Candida can use protein, lipids and cellulose for energy too, so if you starve them of glucose they’ll just switch to using something else.
Apparently, once they become pathogenic they can colonise any tissue or organ and use amino acids and host proteins preferentially as an energy source. Only the non-pathogenic C albicans do not use proteins (something to do with gene expression). Well if that doesn’t explain why they are so hard to shift I don’t know what does.
A piperidine compound in black pepper (and kava!!) may suppress candida growth but only in an alkaline (pH 7.5-8.5) environment. Patty, I’d say alkalise yourself with ACV 3tbs + ½ tsp sodium bicarbonate in ½ glass of water, add plenty of fresh ground black pepper to your food and kick back with some kava kava.:)

PPARGammaGirl
11-11-07, 07:12 PM
Umm, plus I should have said that it seems more likely that switching to a low sugar/carb diet results in improvements to general health, which then allows the body to address the yeasty beasties rather than directly 'starving' them. Makes sense to me.

PPARGammaGirl
11-11-07, 07:16 PM
RB is in the food business and among the products he handles are sweeteners (think about that) and meats (and I'm guessing nothing in his inventory is organic or grass-fed!) He is a two-faced, puffed-up dinkeldorf.

ROTFLMTO:D

mellowsong
11-11-07, 09:32 PM
Thanks again GammaGirl. Islander, he's on a tear again in the article about Cweet! GammaGirl, I'm on a diet my chiropractor put me on for "healing" including weight loss. Absolutely no sugars or grains are allowed, no potatoes, no corn, summer squash, not winter, limited beans, you get the drift. I've been doing this for almost 6 months, with almost never cheating. I've never had much of a sweet tooth per se, but I like sweet beverages. I know that SweetLeaf is done by alcohol extraction and used that til it ran out but I've been using the NOW brand for the last few weeks, not sure what method they use, but it tastes great! I'm going to get an ulcer worrying about everything, his comment just shocked me. Thanks for all the advice.

PPARGammaGirl
11-11-07, 09:51 PM
I just went and had a look. If he said that about any particular brand they'd litigate the xylitol out of him.

Reesacat
11-11-07, 10:04 PM
I am radically reversing my eating habits and sorting through information.

At this point I use stevia and am not too worried about it. The only negatives I have heard have been from Russ on VV. I am not discounting his experience, but as has been mentioned before the Japanese have been using it for years.

I find it helps to step back and look at the big picture. Compared to the way I was eating 6 months ago, I am doing so much better. Right now, a little Stevia or organic coffee isn't going to make that much difference.

As I get better, I might be able to do without it or more information will surface. I am going to continue to learn and pray for wisdom and listen to all of you, but I am also going to enjoy my food and be grateful for the opportunity to regain my health.

I don't know if that would help:confused: -it is the only way I can handle the information dissonance right now.:cool:

PPARGammaGirl
11-12-07, 01:09 AM
Exactly Reesacat - people need to enjoy their food - number one priority. That said, the more natural the food the better (and I do not mean raw cabbage). I consider most of us to have been descended from peoples who have had 10,000 years to get used to agricultural diet so the odd piece of bread, glass of wine or bit of pasta is not going to kill you. I like to look at the French, not as a paradox, but as an interesting example of eating. They do eat bread, usually white, but it is baked fresh twice a day and additive free. Most of their meals are prepared from scratch with fresh, good quality local ingredients, cooked with care and pride, and eaten in relaxed, enjoyable circumstances. Most important of all - the food is loaded with natural fats and not loaded with MSG and other chemical adulterants. Ever had a real French croissant? Beeyootiful, and not only are they made with loads of butter, you eat them with added butter. Num, num, num. I miss real French croissants, the ones they make here are vile (probably margarine). I think I might retire to France and live on croissants, pate foie gras, double-fat camembert, good red plonk and Gauloises.

Islander
11-12-07, 03:41 PM
I think I might retire to France and live on croissants, pate foie gras, double-fat camembert, good red plonk and Gauloises.

Scratch the Gauloises. Even cigars are not that stinky. On everything else you said, I wholeheartedly concur!

Now I think I will go over to VV and needle Russ some more.

PPARGammaGirl
11-12-07, 03:55 PM
Can I come and watch?

Islander
11-12-07, 10:51 PM
Too late, it's over. You can go see. He's bleeding from an eyeball. The Cweet thread has moved to VV. I called him on some stuff, and I gave Mary a poke for saying you can't patent anything natural. Of course you can. Migod, when I was being a horticulturist I had to sign away my first-born child before I could open the seal on a carton of patented plantlets. She said something equally stupid last week too; I sent her to Google it. God. She's a nurse, she should know that DNA has been patented for a generation.

PPARGammaGirl
11-12-07, 11:28 PM
Too late, it's over. You can go see. He's bleeding from an eyeball. The Cweet thread has moved to VV. I called him on some stuff, and I gave Mary a poke for saying you can't patent anything natural. Of course you can. Migod, when I was being a horticulturist I had to sign away my first-born child before I could open the seal on a carton of patented plantlets. She said something equally stupid last week too; I sent her to Google it. God. She's a nurse, she should know that DNA has been patented for a generation.
LOL:cool: Monsanto even took out the patent on basmati rice cheeky buggers. Maybe I could poke the other eyeball?