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Islander
06-24-10, 11:29 AM
Jun 23, 2010

Reflexology massage (http://www.altmedicinezone.com/reflexology/reflexology-the-art-of-stimulating-the-pressure-points/) is a form of therapy that focuses on using the feet, as well as the hands, to heal other parts of the body.
It works with the premise that certain nerve endings are located in the feet and hands that are connected to vital organs and glands, which, when pressure is applied to these endings, serve as therapy and treatment.
Reflexology massage dates back to ancient Oriental times. A map of the feet shows where certain pressure points are.
It is a Chinese method of treatment that teaches that the body has several lines, just like a globe, where energy flows through. http://www.altmedicinezone.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Reflexology-massage1.jpg
When one is experiencing pain or disorders, these energy lines are blocked, and reflexology is their approach to unblocking these areas.
It is believed that reflexology massage can promote health through its non-invasive form of treatment and therapy.
There are different pressure points in reflexology massage that must be considered for it to become effective and they are commonly found in the feet. The pressure points located in the feet are the following:

The area towards the heel is connected to the intestines and lower back
The ball of the foot[Foot reflexology (http://www.altmedicinezone.com/reflexology/foot-reflexology-is-simple-and-easy-massage-for-relaxation/)] is connected to the chest and the heart
The toes reflect the head
The foot’s arch is connected to the kidney, pancreas, and liver During the reflexology massage session, the pressure applied to these points usually makes most people feel relaxed, while soreness or pain may indicate trouble spots. However, over the course of the session, the pain normally decreases.
Common illnesses that can be treated with reflexology massage

Digestion problems
Back pain
Stress-induced physical pain
Insomnia
Arthritis
Headaches
Sports injuries
Pain relief from neck, shoulders, and the jaw
Benefits of reflexology massage No equipment or special tools are needed to heal with reflexology massage. This method of treatment is non-invasive and completely safe for anyone.
However, if you are pregnant or have blood clots, you may want to consult with a doctor first before proceeding with reflexology.
It has been used since ancient times and is recognized as one of the most effective ways to heal.
Reflexology massage gives the client an overall soothing and relaxing feeling.
You don’t need to take pills or other forms of treatment to cure your disease. Although it is not a cure-all for disease, it helps in telling you what your problem areas are so you can take future precaution in taking better care of yourself.
If you experience pain during the session, you should communicate this to your therapist. Although it’s not a substitute for medical treatment, it can provide relief for pain but may also point out serious health problems, so your therapist can provide a suggestion for the next steps you should take.
Reflexology massage approaches health holistically, and even if you don’t have any pains or problems, it is always good to make you feel relaxed and soothed.


http://tinyurl.com/25kzrrh

Islander
06-24-10, 11:35 AM
I have an otherwise intelligent friend who has CFID. She self-medicates a lot and is the most gullible person I have ever met. If she reads a testimonial or hears a word-of-mouth cure-all, she buys it and tries it. She's on a small fixed income like me, but she bought ten ionic foot bath treatments at $25 a pop before even trying one...and when I asked her whether she felt any better afterwards, she couldn't tell me.

So...she has been doing foot reflexology once a week for years. She can't tell me she notices anything different after Tx, but she continues to spend money on these. Knowing the wisdom of the ancient Chinese, I want to believe there's something in this...but it just sounds too "woo" to me. Somebody have anything to change my mind?

Katee
06-24-10, 11:53 AM
As a massage therapist, i've basic knowledge of this & have done it some. I have 3 (i think) vids of how to do this. I had always considered this a "woo-woo" thing. My first experience with this was several years ago (2003?) when i worked at a spa. One of the other girls was watching a vid, reviewing it as she had a reflexology session coming up. It was a day when i had an intractable migraine. I had had a lot of meds (like Tylenol with codeine & Darvon N-100), & a chiropractic adjustment & nothing was touching the migraine. I followed along the vid, doing to my hands what mirrored what the practitioner was doing on the feet (the theory is that it works hands/feet/ears). We only got the sides of the hands & fingers done (the parts related to spine, head & neck) before she stopped the vid & went off to do her treatment. About 10 minutes total. In that 10 minutes, the headache of several hours & no relief with any treatment was gone. I spent the rest of the day walking around saying, "I don't even believe in this stuff! How could that work?" Not too long after that i did a reflexology session with someone & they scheduled an hour. My recommendation: Don't do an hour. Half an hour or even 15 minutes is plenty. I've never had as much relief with reflexology as i did that very first time, but i admit, i don't do much of it. I've had much more success personally with CranioSacral work for prevention of migraines. (In the past 4 years i've used the same amount of meds that i used to use in 4 months before; in the past 18 months i've only used meds twice.) But CranioSacral is rather "woo-woo" too. Although it was developed by a doctor & he's done lots of research with it, as have others now. I wouldn't wash out reflexology, but if she hasn't experienced any relief, there are many, many more modalities that might be more effective for her. (This wouldn't let me use my favorite font, Comic Sans.)

Katee
06-24-10, 11:54 AM
It also didn't give me my paragraph breaks & won't let me edit without deleting the post.

Katee
06-24-10, 11:59 AM
Oh, i should add, that on occasion when doing reflexology (tho keep in mind that i'm not an advanced practitioner) i come across a "tough spot" in the person's foot. I will ask them if they've been having a problem with ___________ (digestion, menstruation issues, headaches, neck pain, etc.) & often they will say "How did you know?" Well, it was on the place on the foot that was related to the issue.

Islander
06-24-10, 12:56 PM
Katee, I remain open-minded tho a bit skeptical. Think it could help with back pain?

P.S. Comic sans is way overused anyway. :D

And vB is whimsical. I know Aaltrude has had problems with it too. Suggestion: copy the post before editing. Then you can re-post, make changes and then upload.

Reesacat
06-24-10, 01:27 PM
I actually took a course in it. I think it helps-I also can find like Katee a 'hard place' and look and see if it corresponds to organ or system on chart and often people will have an issue with the organ where there is a 'hard place' at that reflex point.

It does give some relief-like other acupuncture/massage treatments it helps the body re-balance. Also really looses up the feet-alignment and balance can improve.

It is also very nurturing-sometimes a therapy such as massage or reflexology helps because it is a nurturing touch. And if you get along well with your practitioner there is an energy synergy 'thang' that happens.

Won't hurt your friend, may help on several levels.
Sometimes in treating CFIDS you have to give the patient hope and a sense of control over their illness.

EmmaPeel
06-24-10, 02:14 PM
Okay...here's my 2 loonies for what its worth...lol :)

I was a licensed Esthetician for many years before becoming a BN.(And no, that doesn't stand for Bloody Nuisance, as my patients would like to suggest...he hee)...

The foot is rich in nerve endings and energy pathways, with skin(largest organ) and musculature being the largest on the body, acting as the portal and landmark to the nerve endings and chi flow, that directly correlates to other parts of the body.

Reflexology works on the same principles as yoga, network chiropractic, and other forms of 'innervation'.

I have studied many modalities in school, and I have used Reflexology in my practice both back then, and presently, with positive results. It all depends on the individual and how 'open' they are to receiving, and of course the source of the issue. That is the same for ALL therapies, IMHO...:)

I used Reflexology on my son as an infant who suffered chronically with ear infections. When I focused on his reflexology 'points',he was comforted and relieved of pain within about 10 minutes. I have also used Reflexology for everything from menstrual pain to migraines to constipation, and the results I have experienced has been significantly effective when the individual is 'receptive and open', and who has been checked out by their health care professional like a Naturopathic Doc. :)

All I know is, when my feet aren't happy, my whole body isn't happy!

EmmaPeel
06-24-10, 02:24 PM
Islander, it all depends on the origin of your back pain. As you know, back pain is complicated. It can be from a structural issue like a skeletal subluxation, nerve issue, kidney or other organ issue, strain/sprain, weak abdominal and back muscles...

Best to always find out the source of your problem first before trying anything new. That's my disclaimer and I'm stick'n to it...;)

EmmaPeel
06-24-10, 02:41 PM
I have an otherwise intelligent friend who has CFID. She self-medicates a lot and is the most gullible person I have ever met. If she reads a testimonial or hears a word-of-mouth cure-all, she buys it and tries it. She's on a small fixed income like me, but she bought ten ionic foot bath treatments at $25 a pop before even trying one...and when I asked her whether she felt any better afterwards, she couldn't tell me.

So...she has been doing foot reflexology once a week for years. She can't tell me she notices anything different after Tx, but she continues to spend money on these. Knowing the wisdom of the ancient Chinese, I want to believe there's something in this...but it just sounds too "woo" to me. Somebody have anything to change my mind?
...Oh can ever relate to this! I have an otherwise intelligent friend who has a fear of aging and death as her motivator (although she will never admit it...) She has gone for, and spent uber $$$ on everything from ionic foot baths to tone therapy (auditory tones at different levels to apply to whatever your malady is..) She has even purchased a tonal, electrical acupuncture device that pulses small amounts of electricity on the acupuncture site.

Yes, some of these 'treatments' make no sense to me, and I cannot seem to find one reason why they would work (or not work). There are many charlatans and snake oil salespeople out there who would love to take our money, and many would be happy to give it.

~~::Shudder::~~ ....I had a thought flash to James Ray's sweat lodge tragedy....

...ya just can't buy common sense and listening to your own body.

Maurya
06-24-10, 04:26 PM
All I know is, when my feet aren't happy, my whole body isn't happy!

EmmaPeel, please come over here, right now! My feet need you! :)

Islander
06-24-10, 04:26 PM
Islander, it all depends on the origin of your back pain. As you know, back pain is complicated. It can be from a structural issue like a skeletal subluxation, nerve issue, kidney or other organ issue, strain/sprain, weak abdominal and back muscles...

Best to always find out the source of your problem first before trying anything new. That's my disclaimer and I'm stick'n to it...;)

I suspect the weak muscles you mention, but exercises seem not to have helped at all. I think weight loss will help but so far it's only been 10 pounds, not enough to make a difference. I go to the gym, working on core muscles, but I cannot walk — standing or walking for more than a few minutes leads to unbearable pain. I haven't left the country in 3 years because what's the point of travel if you can't walk? I'm here now because I had to take a sit-down break from making strawberry jam. <snarl>

Back to work now...

EmmaPeel
06-24-10, 05:59 PM
EmmaPeel, please come over here, right now! My feet need you! :)

....can't come right now...mail them to me...!!!:D:D LOL

Okay, go soak them in epsom salts. After about 20 minutes, dry them off and THEN mail them to me..:eek:

EmmaPeel
06-24-10, 06:08 PM
I suspect the weak muscles you mention, but exercises seem not to have helped at all. I think weight loss will help but so far it's only been 10 pounds, not enough to make a difference. I go to the gym, working on core muscles, but I cannot walk — standing or walking for more than a few minutes leads to unbearable pain. I haven't left the country in 3 years because what's the point of travel if you can't walk? I'm here now because I had to take a sit-down break from making strawberry jam. <snarl>

Back to work now...

Great to hear about your 10 pound loss! That's fantastic!

I am sorry to hear about your back pain! How long have you had your pain? Have you ever had a gait/foot assessment? You know, some back pain originate in the feet. Right now I am also having SI issues...last night I hobbled to my car after work my back was so bad. Couldn't stand for more than about 10 minutes. I sat and paid some attention to my body today. I now realize that it is my feet. I started to feel aches along the top of my feet, along the arch, in my ankles, knees, hips and lower back...when I was paying attention...I wasn't paying attention before...just motoring on.....:rolleyes:

Time for me to get new cross-trainers and re-evaluate my orthotics...:):)

Islander
06-24-10, 06:28 PM
Emma, you don't want my life history, really. I worked doing stoop labor with migrant workers starting when I was 12 till I turned 15. First back pain started with my 1st pregnancy and has been intermittent thereafter. OB said it was sacroiliac, later confirmed by chiros. At one time I owned a feed store and lifted, stacked, manhandled 100-pound grain sacks. I've also done a lot of building in stone, but have learned to respect my limits.

In the last 5-6-7 years it has gotten progressively worse. I've given up on chiros because they have not helped. I'm still hoping that strengthening core muscles and continued weight loss will help, but meanwhile it's seriously interfering with my life. I used to travel internationally once a year. Not any more. Walking used to help with weight management but now I can't do it.

I do have orthotics & diabetic shoes.

Sounds hopeless, eh? Any suggestions?

EmmaPeel
06-24-10, 07:40 PM
Emma, you don't want my life history, really. I worked doing stoop labor with migrant workers starting when I was 12 till I turned 15. First back pain started with my 1st pregnancy and has been intermittent thereafter. OB said it was sacroiliac, later confirmed by chiros. At one time I owned a feed store and lifted, stacked, manhandled 100-pound grain sacks. I've also done a lot of building in stone, but have learned to respect my limits.

In the last 5-6-7 years it has gotten progressively worse. I've given up on chiros because they have not helped. I'm still hoping that strengthening core muscles and continued weight loss will help, but meanwhile it's seriously interfering with my life. I used to travel internationally once a year. Not any more. Walking used to help with weight management but now I can't do it.

I do have orthotics & diabetic shoes.

Sounds hopeless, eh? Any suggestions?

Nothing is hopeless...well, in my opinion anyway. I've gotten really preachy about network chiro, so forgive me if I suggest finding one in your area...There are good practitioners who are also into energy healing (cuz I do think it goes hand in hand...I know, I know...you're thinking...Emma really IS TRIPP'N!!! Too woo woo...out there babe! But I can't say enough about how it has helped me. LOL

Now my SI (Sacroiliac) has been giving me hell for the past week and I am sure it is my feet. My hips are subsequently 'out' and my entire body alignment off balance. When I am 'in balance', I can walk for hours...up til 4 .am. last night with SI pain so bad I wanted someone to stand on my backside!

Every tried physio? Are you covered? I am planning to do chiro and physio together this time. I found the network chiro excellent, but did not last long. The muscles needed strengthening and stretching at the same time for it to be long lasting< IMHO. I am also back to yoga stretching-floor exercise for recovery. Feels fantastic.:)

I know exactly what you mean when you feel frustrated that you can't do much because of the pain...then comes weight gain....more pain...more immobility...more weight...vicious cycle.

If I may suggest taking a look at your computer seat...does it have good support? Is your spine supported? Do you take breaks, walk and stretch every 30 minutes?

Islander
06-24-10, 09:16 PM
Nothing is hopeless...well, in my opinion anyway. I've gotten really preachy about network chiro, so forgive me if I suggest finding one in your area...There are good practitioners who are also into energy healing (cuz I do think it goes hand in hand...I know, I know...you're thinking...Emma really IS TRIPP'N!!! Too woo woo...out there babe! But I can't say enough about how it has helped me. LOL

Now my SI (Sacroiliac) has been giving me hell for the past week and I am sure it is my feet. My hips are subsequently 'out' and my entire body alignment off balance. When I am 'in balance', I can walk for hours...up til 4 .am. last night with SI pain so bad I wanted someone to stand on my backside!

Every tried physio? Are you covered? I am planning to do chiro and physio together this time. I found the network chiro excellent, but did not last long. The muscles needed strengthening and stretching at the same time for it to be long lasting< IMHO. I am also back to yoga stretching-floor exercise for recovery. Feels fantastic.:)

I know exactly what you mean when you feel frustrated that you can't do much because of the pain...then comes weight gain....more pain...more immobility...more weight...vicious cycle.

If I may suggest taking a look at your computer seat...does it have good support? Is your spine supported? Do you take breaks, walk and stretch every 30 minutes?

Please explain what you mean by "network" chiro. Also I don't know what "physio" would entail. Yoga requires me to be on my knees at certain points and I can't do that either. And no, I can't sit still even though I can't be on my feet too long. I'm doing things in the house, yard, garden, and running back to the 'puter to sit for a bit till I can get back to what I was doing. The office chair may not be the best, but I have a delta cushion on my kitchen chair, and one in the chair I use when I watch a movie, which I am about to do now. G'nite! Oh, and thank you for suggestrions...I'm still listening!

EmmaPeel
06-25-10, 01:03 PM
Hi again, this gives a general explanation of Network Chiropractic. I can't stress enough how important it is to find a good practitioner who upgrades regularly his/her skills.

http://www.donaldepstein.com/nsa/network.shtml

Here is a video demo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zRhUmgnIQM&feature=related

I also wanted to comment that yoga doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be on your knees. There are modifications and adjustments made especially for individuals who have back, knee, or any type of injury or issue. As a matter of fact, I found a program here in my hometown that is specifically for back health!
:)

Good on ya for moving and puttering around! One of the things that my chiro told me was "...No sitting or staring into a computer screen for more than 20-30 minutes max. Get up and walk around, stretch and strengthen." A physio therapist would be able to also give you exercises to do at home along with things to look out for, things to be cautious doing, and how to sit, stand and walk 'properly'...many of us just don't know how to walk, sit and stand properly, believe it or not!

Your chiropractor and physio could also send you for a gait assessment and have a look at your footware and orthotics. I just got my orthotic and cross trainers last Fall and I think I have worn it out already!!

Hope this helps!

Aaltrude
06-25-10, 02:25 PM
This video was posted by one of my FB friends yesterday.

36RMezB5Mzg

Islander
06-25-10, 02:47 PM
So...I checked your links and watched the vid. Frankly, it bothered me that the practitioner barely touched the clients. Looked a lot like reike, where again no actual touching takes place. I gave it a try and experienced exactly nothing.

But I thought, one of my chiros used to do something similar, so I went looking for members/practitioners online. There are none in Maine, but I thought this msg board was interesting:
http://chirotalk.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=technique&action=display&thread=4668

I've seen 4-5 area chiros. The first one, Kathleen Clark, did something magical with light touch. She found a spot on my groin that was sensitive to pressure and rested 2 fingers there...found a similar spot somewhere else (neck, maybe?) and put light pressure on that point too. Had me close my eyes, look up and to the left, visualize a particular number. About ten seconds later she pressed on the points and the pain was gone— as was my back pain! I know, it sounds hocus-pocus, but it worked. After 5-6 visits I was free of pain.
Pain reappeared about 18 months later and this time, after repeated visits, it just didn't work. That's when she referred me elsewhere but neither one helped. The final one seemed to make me feel better after Tx, but he thumped me and snapped me and hurt me...I'd tense up as soon as he put me in a position. It just wasn't worth it, going there to get hurt, even if it was only for a few moments.

So for now, I guess I'll continue going to the gym, losing weight, and maybe trying a bit of yoga. Thank you for the suggestions!

on edit: just saw Aaltrude's video, which pretty much confirms what I already knew. Any of these approaches costs money, even if only a co-pay, and right now my disposable income is to the monthly gym membership. I need $700 for my winter wood supply...

EmmaPeel
06-25-10, 05:18 PM
Took a look at the message board and, well, all I have to say about that is that I will not be joining that one. Wow, who needs that? Whomever that chiro is who runs that message board, does not impress me with his approach.:mad:

Thank you for taking a look at the video and reading my link. Ultimately it is your decision of course, and if your income is limited, you obviously will need to prioritize your funds, for sure! I have to do it all the time!

As far as the Network Chiro is concerned, I can tell you that I have barely been able to walk into the office and get on the bed, and within a few hours post treatment I am about 75% improved and it just kept improving over the subsequent 48hours. I had experienced more flexibility, more energy, more lung capacity, and above all less pain. In fact, the pain was sometimes gone after about 3-4 treatments, and stayed away sometimes for months. When I first had it done about 10 years ago, I was highly skeptical. What the heck was this guy doing gently touching points at the top of, and 'in' my "bum crack" (coccyx), neck, and parts of my back like he was gently playing a piano? Totally Nuts.

But there have been times during treatment that I can literally FEEL energy being released from my legs and the soles of my feet, much like when I do EFT.

But I gotta say, I instinctively began to move and wriggle, almost undulate. Small moves at first. My spine ping-ed and popped, tension released, ...and I gotta say one thing....I SLEEP LIKE A BABY! I have beautiful dreams post treatment for days. I even noticed that I was able to cope better with the pressures of work as a result. :)

Quackery? New Age Garbage? Suggestive Programming? Non-Science Based tripe? I dunno. How do you research study on Qualitative stuff? All I know is it worked for me, and I will continue to use it for as long as I can afford to....:)

BTW, as you might know already. I am also a Reiki practitioner, and I gotta say...I've seen some amazing stuff happen, Pegg, and I use Reiki very effectively on my dying patients, especially when they are frightened and 'fighting' the dying process/transition.... it is EXTREMELY calming to the nervous system.

You don't need to necessarily 'touch' people to move energy (chi)...Reiki is another modality that requires that ideally the person be open minded and give permission to the practitioner to have their energies manipulated.

:))

Islander
06-25-10, 07:08 PM
I have to take the word of someone who has experienced something I have not, or that seems cockamamie to me. I have never seen a UFO, but members of my family have, and I have to accept that people are telling me the truth as they have experienced it.

I'm glad this Tx has helped you, and if there were an affordable practitioner within easy driving distance I would be open-minded enough to try it. I might even try foot reflexology...someone does that in a nearby town.

Ever the skeptic,

Islander :o

EmmaPeel
06-25-10, 09:22 PM
I have to take the word of someone who has experienced something I have not, or that seems cockamamie to me. I have never seen a UFO, but members of my family have, and I have to accept that people are telling me the truth as they have experienced it.

I'm glad this Tx has helped you, and if there were an affordable practitioner within easy driving distance I would be open-minded enough to try it. I might even try foot reflexology...someone does that in a nearby town.

Ever the skeptic,

Islander :o

...I am a huge skeptic too Islander...very cautious about what I take on.
My son calls me a major cynic constantly, and my colleagues firmly believe that I have a 'global brain'. Now sure how or why ...but a global brain is a brain that can think, analyze and solve on huge, global multi levels.
I guess it's because I don't take many things at face value but prefer to investigate and get a bigger, multidimensional picture...many times, as we know, motivations can be all about $$. I'm far too cheap to give my hard earned dollars to a charlatan!

BTW, I've got heaps of wood for you...just wish we could figure out how to get it to Maine...????:rolleyes:

Maurya
06-25-10, 10:13 PM
Here is something that has helped me, actually yesterday. I was going to try to wait until after I got paid, but as I had a large water tube boiler on the schedule for today, and did not quite know how I was going to get into it, I decided to give this a chance. I had a shiatsu treatment (again, accessibility might be a factor for many people in different geographical areas), followed immediately by a treatment from my chiropractor. I suppose he is a "regular" chiropractor, as we do not seem to have any Network chiropractor in this area. Anyway, my problems were resolved enough for me to do my boilers today, and I made another appointment for next week. After two surgeries on my shoulder, I think that it is time for me to get a firm grip on this issue, before I become too disabled to work. ($$$) So if anyone has experience with a good shiatsu practitioner, I hope that you will share some feedback with the rest of us. :)

DizzyIzzy
06-26-10, 12:29 PM
<jumps in really late>

I love reflexology! I've seen amazing things happen with it, and it's helped me a lot over the years. Even just knowing a few points on your hands and pressing them when something's awry can help a lot. It's so worth a shot for just about anything. And if all else fails, it's a nice foot/hand rub, right?

Pegg, you need me to sort your back, lol. But I can't transport myself there so, sorry. :P I have magic healing hands... energy work (woo woo!) but it works. The energy within people and things... whatever you wanna call it... is as palpable to me as anything 'solid'. So with that in mind, I say just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it ain't real! Skepticism is great and I'm a very skeptical person... but sometimes an open mind is the best way forward, no matter how out there things seem at first sight. :D

I would recommend a good, experienced osteopath who practices cranialsacral work. Find a goodie and it's like magic. I'm not kidding when I say I wouldn't be able to walk, turn my head, move without them... my neck would likely be broken if it wasn't for my osteopaths. They're miracle workers. I've had a compressed spine, broken tailbone, two major whiplashes, and nearly broken my neck (2 very-nearly-totally-dislocated cervical vertebrae), all at different times [yeah I'm clumsy], yet I have no back pain, no neck pain, no problems anymore. All thanks to them. :D

EmmaPeel
06-26-10, 05:16 PM
Okay Diz...forgive me for being so stupid...but is an osteopath otherwise known as a chiropractor??:confused::)

EmmaPeel
06-26-10, 05:21 PM
Maurya...shiatsu...yaaaaaaaa.....ummmmm....that's the spot...I wish I had a masseuse here right now! My lower back is insanely achy !!..I actually left work early today. My left ankle is now swollen and sore. I think it is a direct result of my back being out, my muscles being a too tense, and my habitual kicking out of the doorstop on my medroom door...imagine doing that 10 times a day? Eeeyyaaaoooowwww!

Currently soaking ...need massage.:(

stupid door. stupid back. stupid ankle.

Reesacat
06-26-10, 05:56 PM
{{{Sending Warm Shiatsu Fuzzies to Emma}}}}

Maurya
06-26-10, 06:21 PM
{{{Sending Warm Shiatsu Fuzzies to Emma}}}}
What she said! :D

Maurya
06-26-10, 06:28 PM
I would recommend a good, experienced osteopath who practices cranialsacral work. Find a goodie and it's like magic.
Izzy, Emma, and all, I think that in the United States we have a type of doctor called an Osteopath, but the discipline must differ in some significant ways from the sort that Izzy is recommending. Many, many years ago a Doctor of Osteopathy (DO) would have been trained in spinal manipulation, similar to Chiropractic, with the addition of training in all the anatomy, physiology, etc. that would be taught to any other allopathic physician. Somewhere along the way this all changed. In today's world they are pure and simple pill pushers, very little different from a Medical Doctor (MD). So although we seem to have a DO on every other street corner, around here, there is no fundamental improvement over an MD, unless one happens to capture a wild, independent thinker, of course. Miracles might indeed happen! :)

Aaltrude
06-26-10, 09:03 PM
I was under the impression that what you call an osteopath in the US is different from an osteopath in NZ.
Here is a definition I found of osteopathy as practised in NZ

"Osteopathy is an approach to healthcare that emphasizes the role of the musculoskeletal system in health and disease. It is practiced in the entire European Union, Israel, Canada, New Zealand and Australia. ..."

It is a more gentle approach in comparison to chiropratic therapy. I used an Osteopath when I had a shoulder impingement. I had previously been to a physiotherapist who had made no difference at all yet I could notice the difference after my first appointment with the Osteopath. With his treatment it was cured within a reasonable time.

DizzyIzzy
06-26-10, 11:19 PM
That's interesting! Ok, no, don't go to one of those then, lol. Osteopathy here is similar to chiropractic (which could be different here too?!), but essentially involves manipulation of the muscles - similar to massage - and on rare occasions manipulation of bones, to correct musculoskeletal (and other structural) problems. They tend to be a loooooot more gentle and less likely to cause problems than chiro's here do; often you're not even sure they're doing anything until you sit up and suddenly you can move. They're also brilliant for things like sinus problems, colds and flu, period problems, you name it they'll fix it.

Cranialsacral work involves very gentle manipulation of the skull bones and muscles, to the point that you usually can't even feel it - just feels like they're holding your head. Until you stand up and can move again, lol.

Osteopaths in England are the same as osteopaths in New Zealand, if that helps!

They're like miracle workers, I swear. I went to one once after I passed out on a toilet and faceplanted the floor, pushing C4 and C5 out so much it nearly broke my neck. Was in agonising pain and couldn't turn my head at all; I could barely move. He had me moving my neck properly and out of pain within 45mins (usually it's a 30min session but this required extra care, lol). Four sessions later and it was fixed totally; now I just go if I manage to damage myself again, lol.

EmmaPeel@Work
06-27-10, 11:05 AM
.....essentially involves manipulation of the muscles - similar to massage - and on rare occasions manipulation of bones, to correct musculoskeletal (and other structural) problems. They tend to be a loooooot more gentle and less likely to cause problems than chiro's here do; often you're not even sure they're doing anything until you sit up and suddenly you can move. They're also brilliant for things like sinus problems, colds and flu, period problems, you name it they'll fix it.

Cranialsacral work involves very gentle manipulation of the skull bones and muscles, to the point that you usually can't even feel it - just feels like they're holding your head. Until you stand up and can move again, lol.

Osteopaths in England are the same as osteopaths in New Zealand, if that helps!

They're like miracle workers, I swear. I went to one once after I passed out on a toilet and faceplanted the floor, pushing C4 and C5 out so much it nearly broke my neck. Was in agonising pain and couldn't turn my head at all; I could barely move. He had me moving my neck properly and out of pain within 45mins (usually it's a 30min session but this required extra care, lol). Four sessions later and it was fixed totally; now I just go if I manage to damage myself again, lol.
Okay...now you have me intrigued! I have rarely heard of osteopath's here in Canada. We do have chiropractic on practically every street corner though! We have orthopedic fellows that work along side physiotherapists at many sports clinics here, but never heard of an osteopath. Maybe Osteopath and Orthopedic fellow's are one in the same here! I need to get to the bottom of this, because I have to fix my back and neck.

Now sure if you remember Diz, but back in late November I did an injury to my C4-C5 by transferring a heavy patient with equipment one evening... My C4-C5 quite literally popped out and rotated 90 degrees according to my Network Chiropractor. It was very painful. One could actually "feel" the spinous process of my cervical vertebrae sticking out just right of medial on the back of my neck!! Seriously. It scared the c*** out of me. Especially when I began to experience nausea, a gagging sensation, headaches, and tingling to my legs. He managed to correct the situation, even after two recurrent re-injuries to the same area.

My Newwork chiropractor barely touches me. I mean, you would never know he is doing anything. He gently touches specific touch points on my cauda equina (coccyx as you know), neck and parts of my back. Very gently. If I didn't know better I would say he was doing nothing. But all I know is that when I stand up, most of the tension is beginning to release, and within just a few hours I am feeling so much better! he has this one treatment, (I want to find out what this little well-being point is 'cuz BOY o BOY) where he touches about 6 spots and you literally FEEL energy moving up and down your spine. When you get up, you feel like you could run a marathon! He must be manipulating and stimulating the pituitary and the hypothalamus!)

(He just laughs at me because he sees me hobbling in pain, miserable, and leaving like some one just gave me happy drugs!)

Maurya
06-27-10, 11:14 AM
EmmaPeel, although I am not an expert on the situation concerning medical credentials in Canada, I would think that a person with the initials DO after his/her name would be similar to a Doctor of Osteopathy in the US. As mentioned in one of my previous postings, however, this clearly would not be the same type of practice as described by Izzy. I would stick with your chiropractor, if indeed you have found a good one. And don't forget the shiatsu, for overall wellness care. :) I have heard good things about Reiki, as well, although I have had no personal experience, as the practitioners in this area are way out of my price range. :(

EmmaPeel@Work
06-27-10, 02:08 PM
EmmaPeel, although I am not an expert on the situation concerning medical credentials in Canada, I would think that a person with the initials DO after his/her name would be similar to a Doctor of Osteopathy in the US. As mentioned in one of my previous postings, however, this clearly would not be the same type of practice as described by Izzy. I would stick with your chiropractor, if indeed you have found a good one. And don't forget the shiatsu, for overall wellness care. :) I have heard good things about Reiki, as well, although I have had no personal experience, as the practitioners in this area are way out of my price range. :(
I plan on looking into this for sure...
My son gave me a shiatsu chair massager for Christmas a few years ago...kinda nice, but doesn't hold a candle to having real live hands working on your aching muscles I'm sure!

Maurya, Diz ....just wanted to say that it bugs me to no end that these treatments cost so much money! I know that everyone has to make a living, but some of these practitioners are ridiculous in what they charge.
I charge nothing. Just buy me a nice bottle of Pinot Noir or Malbec from Patagonia($12) but only if you can afford it...hee hee....

If these alternative treatments were monitored and even partially covered by Blue Cross, maybe more people could afford them. Well, maybe. My co-pay per chiro treatment is $27. Try doing that 3-4X a week! Physio here with my co-pay is $10 per treatment. Shiatzu or any body massage can run anywhere from $20-$60 for 30 minutes (depends on how swanky a place you want to be massaged in...a 5 star hotel or a quiet suburban clinic?)
Reflexology and Reiki run about the same as acupuncture ($35-40 an hour co-pay).

In this day and age when we are all looking towards alternative treatments, why is it that they are so bloody inaccessible? Often the ones who need it the most, just can't afford it! Ggggrrrrr.....makes me so mad!

Maurya
06-27-10, 09:19 PM
Reflexology and Reiki run about the same as acupuncture ($35-40 an hour co-pay).
And in your part of the world, at least you are talking about an unaffordable co-pay; here in the US of A, one's insurance rarely even covers these treatments, so each and every treatment is 100% out of one's own pocket, after the gigantic insurance premium has been paid, to cover the possibility of getting hit by a truck.

EmmaPeel
06-27-10, 09:41 PM
And in your part of the world, at least you are talking about an unaffordable co-pay; here in the US of A, one's insurance rarely even covers these treatments, so each and every treatment is 100% out of one's own pocket, after the gigantic insurance premium has been paid, to cover the possibility of getting hit by a truck.
That totally sucks. Has Obama's plan not accounted for alternative therapy or do you have to do everything with a private plan if your workplace doesn't have a group plan?:confused:

I can't afford even the co-pay most of the time, and I know many who are in the same boat...even health care providers, like myself, cannot afford to do these treatments.

What is wrong with this picture???

Our PM, Steven Harper, needs to get a handle on this nonsense and make things accessible to the average person. Keifer Sutherland's grandfather, Tommy Douglas, the father of our National Healthcare system, is rolling in his grave...

His goal was to have basic healthcare available to everyone. I want to take it one step further...make alternative healthcare available to the average person.

Katee
06-27-10, 11:03 PM
Part of the problem is that each "profession" sees all others a competition for the $$ out there.

A couple of years ago someone came to me post car accident for treatment. I did the treatment but STRONGLY recommended she see a chiropractor as well. I didn't at that time know anyone in the area to refer her to & she chose someone randomly (only 4 around here anyway). The one she chose told her she had to immediately stop doing the massage.

In short, he saw me not as a helpful adjunct to the work he was doing but as competition for the $$ he would get from her accident settlement. When i eventually learned which doc that was, i made a point to introduce myself to him & remind him that i knew of him because of my referral of my client to chiropractic. He looked very uncomfortable & told me her case was "very complicated." Which, frankly, was an outright lie. He will never, ever get a referral from me.

Fortunately the doc i work with values my work & will even sometimes tell folks that he's done as much for them as he can, that they need to see me. Unfortunately, he is rather unusual in that approach. Here in CA the chiros actively worked (when they got a bill thru the legislature forcing insurance to cover chiropractic work) to have massage excluded from the coverage so that they won't have to "split the pie."

People are often in a Catch-22 for certain treatment. Their insurances will often pay for physical therapy, but they have to have a rather strong reason for it & a doctor's script. Insurances rarely cover massage, so people have to pay out of pocket, but they have the freedom to go where they feel best served & don't need the doctor's script. Too many people still see massage as a luxury or indulgence rather than an active part of keeping them healthy. The folks who see me regularly see it as a choice they make to improve their functioning.

EmmaPeel
06-28-10, 12:04 AM
Part of the problem is that each "profession" sees all others a competition for the $$ out there.

A couple of years ago someone came to me post car accident for treatment. I did the treatment but STRONGLY recommended she see a chiropractor as well. I didn't at that time know anyone in the area to refer her to & she chose someone randomly (only 4 around here anyway). The one she chose told her she had to immediately stop doing the massage.

In short, he saw me not as a helpful adjunct to the work he was doing but as competition for the $$ he would get from her accident settlement. When i eventually learned which doc that was, i made a point to introduce myself to him & remind him that i knew of him because of my referral of my client to chiropractic. He looked very uncomfortable & told me her case was "very complicated." Which, frankly, was an outright lie. He will never, ever get a referral from me.

Fortunately the doc i work with values my work & will even sometimes tell folks that he's done as much for them as he can, that they need to see me. Unfortunately, he is rather unusual in that approach. Here in CA the chiros actively worked (when they got a bill thru the legislature forcing insurance to cover chiropractic work) to have massage excluded from the coverage so that they won't have to "split the pie."

People are often in a Catch-22 for certain treatment. Their insurances will often pay for physical therapy, but they have to have a rather strong reason for it & a doctor's script. Insurances rarely cover massage, so people have to pay out of pocket, but they have the freedom to go where they feel best served & don't need the doctor's script. Too many people still see massage as a luxury or indulgence rather than an active part of keeping them healthy. The folks who see me regularly see it as a choice they make to improve their functioning.


Katee, what do you do as an adjunct treatment, may I ask?:)

Katee
06-28-10, 02:45 AM
Katee, what do you do as an adjunct treatment, may I ask?:)

I do:

Swedish massage
Trigger point (the only really deep work i utilize)
Myokinesthetic Therapy
Lymph Drainage
CranioSacral Therapy
Reflexology
Ear coning/candling (infrequently)
Pregnancy massage (but not often, not my specialty)

I've also done some energy work, mostly related to CST. I've trained in Shiatsu, but don't use it much. Trigger point is similar, but based on Western medicine. Trigger point can be done as a full therapy, or even for just a few minutes & is very effective. (I've got roughly 1300 hours training & CEUs.)

On occasion, depending on the client, the issue, & my relationship with the client, i have on occasion incorporated EFT with a session. I often recommend Boswellin Cream for pain. It is OTC & very effective (capsaicin-based). I recommend stretching, but that is physical therapy & outside my "scope of practice" & so i usually make recommendations to check with the chiro doc or to buy a stretching book.

Most of the work i do is pain management/improving ROM. Also a lot of on-going supportive work to help the person continue to function.

This sounds like i'm very busy, but i'm not. I work about 3-5 hours a week. The CFS/CFIDS has me disabled, but i'm still able to work a little. It is beneficial to me, too, for i feel it expands my world & helps with my energy to help others. I'm very fortunate to be able to work with a chiro who values the work i do.

And i only am scheduled 2 days a week. The rest of the week i spend recovering!

DizzyIzzy
06-28-10, 05:59 AM
Okay...now you have me intrigued! I have rarely heard of osteopath's here in Canada. We do have chiropractic on practically every street corner though! We have orthopedic fellows that work along side physiotherapists at many sports clinics here, but never heard of an osteopath. Maybe Osteopath and Orthopedic fellow's are one in the same here! I need to get to the bottom of this, because I have to fix my back and neck.

Now sure if you remember Diz, but back in late November I did an injury to my C4-C5 by transferring a heavy patient with equipment one evening... My C4-C5 quite literally popped out and rotated 90 degrees according to my Network Chiropractor. It was very painful. One could actually "feel" the spinous process of my cervical vertebrae sticking out just right of medial on the back of my neck!! Seriously. It scared the c*** out of me. Especially when I began to experience nausea, a gagging sensation, headaches, and tingling to my legs. He managed to correct the situation, even after two recurrent re-injuries to the same area.

My Newwork chiropractor barely touches me. I mean, you would never know he is doing anything. He gently touches specific touch points on my cauda equina (coccyx as you know), neck and parts of my back. Very gently. If I didn't know better I would say he was doing nothing. But all I know is that when I stand up, most of the tension is beginning to release, and within just a few hours I am feeling so much better! he has this one treatment, (I want to find out what this little well-being point is 'cuz BOY o BOY) where he touches about 6 spots and you literally FEEL energy moving up and down your spine. When you get up, you feel like you could run a marathon! He must be manipulating and stimulating the pituitary and the hypothalamus!)

(He just laughs at me because he sees me hobbling in pain, miserable, and leaving like some one just gave me happy drugs!)

That sounds a lot like what they do anyway much of the time, so I wouldn't worry! It's usually just stuff you can barely feel, trigger point stuff, cranial-sacral... really gentle for the most part. Chiros here are pretty rough, I know a good few people who've left worse off than they started. Osteos will do muscular work but you can barely feel it, unless they have to do 'crunchy stuff' and click things around, but that's usually really rare. I hardly ever have them do that; only when I put my hips way out, and my sacrum, and my vertebrae when I did them in.

That's what mine felt like too btw, you could feel them sticking out. Was soooooo lucky I didn't snap my neck. Absolutely terrifying. Thank goodness my osteopath was so good (this was in England), I gave him a ring that afternoon freaking out about what I'd done, so he went down to his clinic and sorted me out on his day off, bless him. Dunno what would have happened if he hadn't!

EmmaPeel
06-29-10, 12:00 PM
I do:

Swedish massage
Trigger point (the only really deep work i utilize)
Myokinesthetic Therapy
Lymph Drainage
CranioSacral Therapy
Reflexology
Ear coning/candling (infrequently)
Pregnancy massage (but not often, not my specialty)

That's amazing Katee. Sorry it took me so long to respond but I just saw this post this morning. Did you leave general duty nursing because of your physical situation and pursue this as an income?

I have been dabbling in many things over the years like Trigger Point massage, Reiki, Music therapy, EFT, some CS therapy, Tonal therapy, Aromatherapy, Reflexology, some Qui gong, Yoga, Hydrotherapy, Meditation therapy, Life Regression therapy, Network Chiropractic, Neurolinguistic programming, massage, and some Aboriginal therapies. I don't feel comfortable hanging a shingle somewhere and practicing on people who seek me out. I am not certified in most of these above stated treatments, but I am a licensed BN. In Canada, as I am sure it is so for down in CA, you have to be certified in everything having hundreds of hours behind you before you can treat people privately or in an office! And I haven't even mentioned the extra liability insurance yet.

My dream would be to transition into practice again in an clinic, but alas, certification, time and available funding is always an issue....you have to build your practice from the ground up...:)

EmmaPeel
06-29-10, 12:07 PM
Diz, you are probably right. The older chiro's in my city still do the rough and tumble spinal crack, which I am sad to say I did for about 7 years myself in the '80's...Not any more.

When I was younger that type of chiro seemed to help me through my car accident injuries, and my pregnancy and labor in 1990.
(Retro uterus = major lower back issue/labor).:)