View Full Version : Overdiagnosed

01-02-12, 03:12 PM
This looks like it could be an interesting book. It is being released tomorrow.

01-02-12, 04:00 PM
That does look interesting! Hopefully library will have it in a few months.
Thank you Aaltrude:)

01-02-12, 04:28 PM
Moved this thread to Member Recommendations.

02-04-12, 01:43 PM
I despise going to doctors' offices. They always try to foist drugs on me. Case in point, when I first go in they take my BP immediately. As I am anxious just by being there, my BP is around 130/80. The first thing they want to do is put me on a beta blocker or put me on some anti-anxiety drug. Make them take your BP at the end of the visit. Then my BP is 110/65 (just what it is when I take it at home). They always act a little disappointed at this, as they have lost an opportunity to medicate me....ha! My latest doctor (a pretty good guy) now asks me questions about natural remedies and supplements. Akita mani yo!

02-04-12, 01:49 PM
Good strategy, Stephen X. I also tell patients to bring in their wrist blood pressure cuffs that have a log of readings on it show what a person's blood pressure actually is, not what you get in the doctor's office.

02-04-12, 02:00 PM
Definitely looks like it might be a worthwhile read. Thanks Aaltrude! @StephenX: You are so lucky to have a doc that asks you about supplements etc and doesn't throw your list in the trash in front of you, unread! LOL

02-04-12, 11:44 PM
So, I'm not the only one who feels this way. I once had a dr tell me to get counseling, ordered no labs, but took my co-pay! Wouldn't have been a good time to retake bp - lol I do appreciate this forum!

02-17-12, 12:09 PM
I just got this from my library, starting to read it. Right away he has a list of minor dysfunctions he experiences and then gives the "diagnosis" he would receive and tests he would be administered for them, should he decide to pursue them.
Immediately this little excercise is fascinating........

Particularly fascinating to me since my friend just spent 3 days in the hospital for acute pancreatitis, caused by a med her gastro prescribed. She had a few attacks before the one that was bad enough to send her to the ER. She is already on a $250/month med for "auto-immune hepatitis" diagnosed because her liver blood tests were a little high. Other tests too I think, but I don't know what they are (she doesn't ask for either result print outs nor does she remember stuff like that). Now when this idiot put her on the second med he was hoping to wean her off the very expensive Rx. He told her NOT to read the side effects for the new medicine, and she DIDN'T. I simply do not understand that kind of non-thinking.

02-17-12, 12:21 PM
Agree, Solly. I never leave the doctor's office w/o hard copies of test results, and what doesn't show up on a test, I make a note of. Yesterday's 90-day diabetes/thyroid visit:
TSH: little low, gonna do complete thyroid panel for next 90-day review.
BP: 126/70
A1c: 5.2, down from 5.4

02-17-12, 12:39 PM
He told her NOT to read the side effects for the new medicine, and she DIDN'T. I simply do not understand that kind of non-thinking.

When i used to use meds regularly, i would make them give me the insert (not the page they print out for the patient, but the actual insert that contains all the info that is in the PDR). Then i would NOT read it until i had been on the med for several days.

My reasoning was that i was always afraid of being a hypochondriac and "talking myself into" having side effects. I felt confident that if i waited until i had side effects, i wouldn't have been psychologically influenced, and then i could read the info a doctor would have to "verify" what i was feeling was indeed due to the med. (I never had a doctor tell me not to read the info.)

This idea makes sense from a certain point of view. However, that point of view was that i did not trust my body, my feelings, my experience. I put all my trust in a doctor who was telling me, "Your problem is X. To solve that, you will take medicine M, and you will be better." Honestly, i often told myself, "Well the doctor tells me that even tho i'm experiencing this pain, i'm not REALLY in pain. It is psychological. I'd better work on my thoughts/feelings so that this pain i feel but don't really have will go away."

I had a brain (in those days) but i didn't trust it or my own logic. I totally bought into the idea that a doctor is the expert and always knows what he is doing. I don't live there any more. My goal is to never take another Rx in my life. I may not manage it, but i'm headed that way.

It is what 90% of Americans seem to do. We have given away our power, and in doing so have become a very sick nation. I attribute 30% of my current state of (ill) health to my trust in those doctors and lack of faith in my own ability to trust what i was feeling. (I attribute 60% to poor diet and taking the meds that were recommended and other bad choices, and 10% to circumstances beyond my control. I had the 30/60% reversed at first, but once again, i think that is giving them too much power and not taking enough responsibility for my own choices.)

Sadly, many people will never "wake up" to the fact that trusting doctors at the expense of using their own brains is a very dangerous and deadly way to live.

02-17-12, 12:40 PM
Good job, Islander! You are doing great at keeping your BS controlled. Congrats.

02-17-12, 04:34 PM
Have you all seen that new commercial that shows a quartet (?) on stage playing music and the violin player is wearing a white lab coat and sounding atrocious? The narrator states that you wouldn't want your doctor to do your job so why are you doing your doctor's job.
It's similar to this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m_ocIvUI24
They so badly want us to stay uninformed.

02-17-12, 06:34 PM
Another one to add to the collection of "List of reasons why Islander doesn't have a television." Not that commercials would convince me of anything. They must work for some people — otherwise why would they keep making them?

02-17-12, 08:16 PM
Well said. My personal goal is to get to where I never have to take another supplement.........I'm not as worried about Rx meds because I am so very careful with them. But I certainly hope I don't ever have to have any new Rxes.

02-17-12, 08:25 PM
I don't expect ever to go w/o supplements. No way could I get 4-6 grams of C or keep my D levels up w/o supplementation, not where I live.

02-17-12, 08:27 PM
Another one to add to the collection of "List of reasons why Islander doesn't have a television." Not that commercials would convince me of anything. They must work for some people — otherwise why would they keep making them?

I think that advertising is stuck in a 40-year-rut like many other professions. Televising a commercial for the new Ford Mustang on all three major networks at once in the 1960s was effective and enormously so. That fertile ground is gone forever. Most people realize that the vast majority of ads are completely ineffective. We are inundated and saturated with advertising. Few people pay attention anymore and we're so cynical (especially the younger generations) that most don't believe the messages. People change the channel during commercials, or mute, or fast forward with the hard drive, or go to the bathroom. We'll watch if they're funny or clever but we never care about the message. I really think that advertising agencies don't have a Plan B. Major corporations have huge advertising budgets. When Coke buys and airs an expensive commericial do more people start drinking Coke? It's just like the budgets for new computer equipment in government agencies. They'll toss out the three-year old computers (straight into the dumpster) and buy new ones because that money is delegated not because there is anything wrong with the older computers. Spend that funding or lose that funding.

Mr. Wizard
02-17-12, 08:44 PM
Let's not forget, the doctor's office is a business. The more they find wrong with you...the more their financial portfolio improves. I need to be reminded that "most" docs went to med school so they could eventually make lots of money. Well, there's only one way to do that....and it requires finding stuff wrong with you and me...and lots of other folk!!

02-17-12, 09:10 PM
I need to be reminded that "most" docs went to med school so they could eventually make lots of money.Cynic though I am, I seriously question this. Other professions are equally lucrative and not so messy: the orthodontist and the lawyer come to mind. I think most begin med school with the genuine desire to help, and some are wooed into more profitable specialties. Granted, my experience is limited: I have dealt mostly with general practitioners who are NOT getting rich, and who are open to CAM. Hard to believe that Maine is unique in this respect, although I do find that some have settled here for "quality of life" reasons and are not profit-driven. Oh, I believe the horror stories others tell...that has just NEVER been my experience!

ETA: the one oncologist I had to deal with was highly professional, highly knowledgeable, highly skilled... and grew up in Western Maine in a house without indoor plumbing. She piloted her own plane to treat patients in the "rooftop" of the state once a week.

Mr. Wizard
02-17-12, 09:24 PM
Islander: How could most folks attending medical school NOT be in it for the money.
According to the Association of American Medical Colleges, the median TOTAL cost in 2010-2011 to attend medical school was $49,298 and $66,984 for public and private universities, respectively. So, 4 years of med school easily costs $200,000.
Also, according to this same Association, in 2010, the median debt at graduation was $150,000 at public institutions, $180,000 at private. So, they can't pay for the education and graduate with "tons" of debt. How can most NOT be in it to make money??...unless, of course, they have rich parents. (big smile)

02-17-12, 11:02 PM
Well...all 4 of my kids went to highly selective schools. Not bragging, just sayin'. We were never in any position to pay for $30,000/year schools! The military paid for one. The others made it on scholarships, grants and yes, loans, and all graduated in debt. #2 daughter got a percent of loans forgiven for Peace Corp activity, and got her Master's with a grant for returned Peace Corps volunteers; got her principal's certification with grant from the City of NY. #2 son a scored a job at Harvard and fringe benefit was free courses; result, Master's from Harvard. These are my adult children but I think the youngest may still be paying off student loans. So yeah...goes with the territory. Going into medicine for the money so you can pay off the cost of going into medicine sounds like circular logic....

02-18-12, 03:03 PM
Up until about the age of 9 or 10 my youngest daughter wanted to be either a neurosurgeon or an orthopaedic surgeon because she was always interested in surgery (especially bones and brains). She had a little white lab coat with her name on it and was always pretending to do surgery. I researched the path and costs (including contacting medical schools for early advice) and spoke with her about it. We began to mentally prepare and plan. She's changed her mind about her career path but money had nothing to do with it. I think that most people who become doctors really do start out with a strong desire to help others and a passion for their chosen field. I also think they are corrupted along the way.

From what I understand now the medical school debt, the costs of insurance/staff/overhead, and the demands of the insurance companies severely reduce the income of the average doctor. Computer engineers made more money with less formal education and can be fairly independent. A talented game designer can made six figures.

02-18-12, 03:51 PM
oops! would you believe I completely forgot about those? I will have to take them forever also, also because of where I live. I don't do nearly that much C though. I get about 1500 mg of liposomal C, when I take any, but sometimes I do go months without any. Not sure why, just stupidity I guess or laziness to make it.

02-18-12, 03:55 PM
Going by size of houses and such in my town dentistry is where the money is. But then again I think at least one of my former doctors owned his own plane just for recreation I think. Maybe he didn't own it but just leased it? LOL.

02-19-12, 12:30 AM
My DO (who is awesome, will spend an hour with you actually paying attention to you, and rarely prescribes drugs) couldn't afford to buy a $300 professional microscope from my husband. He also closed his office on Fridays for financial reasons.