Need info to convince friend

[highlander]

It's hard when you care. It's like watching someone drown because they don't believe in a life preserver.

[bmc65]

When I encounter someone who disagrees with me I just bite my tongue and nod my head when I since counter arguments will only go in circles (unless I'm looking at the entertainment value in it). I have one friend who always act's aghast that we don't use sunblock. When he rants about the dangers of the sun and importance of sun block, I just nod. I do the same when he gets on his vegetarian soap box (it works for him, he won't convince me). I don't bother disagreeing with him, or with telling him about the studies supporting my beliefs. I already know it would go nowhere.
If you guys have the type of relationship where you find it sporting to debate, I say keep it up for the fun and practice, but don't expect him to come around. If you're both taking it pretty seriously (sounds like you are), I say give it up. He needs to find his own way, even if that means living with the consequences of his mistakes, and it's not worth the strain on your relationship.
Bottom line, I don't try to convince someone unless I sense the door is open at least a crack. As other wise members have stated, he's not ready/receptive. Bide your time one day you may get that opening.

[Julieanne]

Sundiego, I told a doc many years ago that I took a homeopathic prep for low thyroid ( I also took the thyroid meds, but was able to halve the dose). Despite the fact that the three monthly checks showed the figures were all OK, he told me I would die if I continued.

Nearly 20 years later - here I am! Some people just don't want to be convinced, despite all the evidence.

bmc - wise words! Wish I could remember to do that all the time, instead of only some of the time.

[Maurya]

It's hard when you care. It's like watching someone drown because they don't believe in a life preserver.

This is so very true! I take some small comfort in understanding that facts remain accurate whether or not a person "believes in" them. Frequently I have found myself embroiled in the sunscreen issue, simply because there I am at the beach with a person who "believes in" the necessity of using sunscreen, and there I am refraining from slathering the stuff on my skin. Of course, my skin looks great compared to theirs, but this counts for nothing because someday when I get old I surely can be expected to pay the price for my excessive sun exposure. Oh wait! I already am old, more than likely quite a bit older than the "sunscreen devotee", but yet my appearance is that of a person not yet old enough for Social Security.

Yes, I do keep my big mouth shut about health issues, mostly concerning food and supplements, but frequently the opinionated people will seek us out.

[Samurai]

Hi Mark,

I honestly don't see anyone eating more butter, and chicken fat than I do.
My total cholesterol that was checked, was 151.

[Katee]

“No one wants advice – only corroboration.” – John Steinbeck

This is one of the trickiest parts of giving advice to people. Generally, they want reinforcement of the plan they already have in their head. If you don’t give them that, then your advice will largely be ignored. I try to seed any advice I might give with hard principles that people might draw on later.

Trent @ The Simple Dollar

[Good-day]

Sundiego, sometimes these important issues need to be said by someone else. Is there a friend who will speak on your behalf, cook them dinner, perhaps eliminating friction/ammo hits? lol good friend you are!

[Sundiego]

I have found that agreeing to disagree and then let it drop often helps. (The more you you try to convince a stubborn person the more they go in the opposite direction, especially a young man. I'm a grandmother ;-)..)

And don't forget the power of living a good example — without saying a word what you are doing is improving your and your family's health. Results speak for themselves! Many of us on Hawkes Health have family and friends that do not want to hear what we have to say, but as they watch us change doors have opened.

I think also the low-fat diet is just now starting to get challenged. When I went gluten free a few years ago no one had heard of it, now it is being talked about in mainstream media. Sometimes the seeds you plant now will be watered and later bear fruit.

Good advise I backed off, hopefully some day he will get it.

[Sundiego]

Mark, your friend may never be ready to hear what you're trying to tell him. He's just as convinced he's right as you are convinced he's wrong. I learned a long time ago that trying to convince others of anything, healthwise, is a waste of breath unless your name has a lot of impressive titles attached to it. Best bet is to just let things be and quit mentioning it. If and when your friend is ready for a change, he will likely insist on finding his own way--as he does now. You need to understand that we each have our own journey in this life, right or wrong, and you can't be responsible for anyone but yourself.

Very true thanks!!

[Sundiego]

Mark: As you noted, perhaps the results of your lipid profile may be enough to convince your friend--perhaps? May I suggest that if you really want to blow your friend's socks off get the verticle auto profile (VAP) lipid panel analysis, rather than the standard lipid profile analysis. VAP provides the standard info. on LDL, HDL, Triglycerides, etc., plus 15 additional subfractions. For example, in addition to the overall LDL number, VAP provides readings for your LDL-1, LDL-2, LDL-3, & LDL-4. Also, most important, VAP determines the size of your LDL. In pattern A, the LDL molecules are larger and less dense, making them easier for the body to remove. In pattern A/B, there is a combination of light and dense molecules. In pattern B, smaller, high-density molecules predominate, which indicates a four-fold greater risk of developing heart disease than people with LDL size pattern A. The VAP test cost twice as much as the standard lipid panel and not all insurances cover VAP. However, IMHO, I think the extra cost is well worth it, given the detailed info. provided by the VAP. Your friend will not be able to ignore the indisputable analysis of the VAP.

This sounds great, never heard of this test. Thanks, I will def look into having this done!

[Sundiego]

Really glad I found this site, I feel much better now. I normally don't try to convince others, but this was a close friend and I knew even if we disagreed we would still remain friends. That's why I pushed it with him. Time will tell.

[Sundiego]

Hi Mark,

I honestly don't see anyone eating more butter, and chicken fat than I do.
My total cholesterol that was checked, was 151.

I love my butter!

[Islander]

I just followed this conversation and have nothing original to add. Our emotional connections to our beliefs, especially when it comes to food & diet, are deep and virtually impregnable; meddle with them at your peril.

Best advice is to back off now; you've planted the seeds, and pushing the issue will merely alienate your friend. Continue to role model. People do change. We all did!

[Maurya]

What Islander and other have said! Sometimes one fails to remember how one previously had lived, prior to "discovering" the truth of how to regain health and to stay healthy. It's sort of like trying to remember childhood reality prior to learning to read; what life really was about back in those "dark ages". I know that I barely can remember what it was like to be a young child, not yet able to read. Plenty of adult people still are functionally illiterate concerning matters of their own health; for the most part they do not know that they do not know. The key is to find out whether they are interested in learning anything or not.