Is it possible to minimize damage from fluoride based antibiotics?

[bormal]

My Collie, Roxie, was just prescribed something named enrofloxacin for a resistant bladder infection. This has been with her now for months and just refuses to go away. I am getting to the point of being willing to try anything now, she is so sick, even these damn flox antibiotics which I have always made a point of refusing in the past.

Is there any way to reduce the toxicity of these drugs? I am especially concerned as she has damage to a cruciate ligament- probably caused by a dose of Cipro, which I didn't know at the time was fluoride based. As a result she has a pretty hard time getting around. If this dose of fluoride based garbage causes more such damage, she may well not make it through. It is a devil's bargain at best- as if the bladder infection doesn't kill her, the antibiotics might.
Any suggestions here will be greatly appreciated.

[grulla]

One can do a websearch with words such as <urinary infection bladder dogs>. Here is one example: http://beingstray.com/home-remedies-...act-infection/

[Islander]

Bormal, I'm going to invite a member who hasn't been here in a while, but has a lot of expertise in fluoroquinolones. Please stand by.

Did you ever try the colloidal silver?

[bormal]

Yes Islander, I am giving her 3-5 droppers full (a bit less than a tsp) about 5 times per day of a brand of colloidal silver called Sovereign Silver that I purchased from Amazon last week. I wanted to try it before I try to make my own...

[Katee]

I am really sorry about this issue, but i would strongly, strongly recommend NOT using any fluoroquinolone (FQ) drug.

I am not well-versed on the animal use of these drugs, but i am very aware of the damage they cause in people, and i know that animals can have similar problems.

Most people who have had this issue were bewildered and ambushed by their response to this drug. Sometimes the effects don't show up for months because it actually changes the mitochondrial DNA. It is said that this class of drugs is closer to chemo in effect than to antibiotics. Some people have taken multiple different courses of the drug, say 10 times, before the 11ths brought crippling effects. There is a good chance that, since many people are able to take these drugs with no apparent problems, that many of the issues may have to do with genetic expression. Meaning, the ones most damaged by it have genes that do not handle it well. And if that is true, those people will never be able to take it safely.

Most doctors still seem to be unaware of the dangers in spite of years of warning from the FDA, black box warnings, and other outcry as well. In fact, it is not uncommon for a patient to return to the doc with these complaints, and linking it to FQs, and the doctor deny the damage, calling it coincidence, even though many of the patient's complaints are listed in the manufacturer's PDR literature. Many FQs have been on the market and removed. Some are still on the market in spite of loud outcry and protest from doctors and patients. More are in the pipeline to be put on the market in the future.

From what i have seen, people who have problems with FQs fall into three categories:

1. They see some damage from the drug, maybe even severe damage, but they are able to take steps to heal and their bodies, given the proper assist, are able to recover.
2. These people also experience damage, and they are able to heal but continue to have some struggles even years later.
3. These people are profoundly damaged and it appears to be permanent.

If your beloved dog already has what appears to be damage from Cipro, giving any further courses of a FQ (there are several by different companies) will be playing a particularly painful form of Russian Roulette. I am sorry that i can't soften this in any way. As far as i know there are no ways to mitigate damage by this drug, not while taking it, not afterwards.

I wish i was able to offer more help. I see you are using colloidal silver, which is a good option. I don't know what else you have tried. I note that d-Mannose is safe for dogs and cats. I might try a 15/16+ manuka honey (maybe a tablespoon dissolved in 1/4-1/2 cup water). Also, for humans, baking soda in water helps alleviate the pain of a UTI. You might try a change in diet, although with dogs this is much more of a challenge.

Best wishes. I so wish i had a better answer for you.

[Katee]

I found this, and it contains a warning for Xylitol for dogs. Though i knew about this issues, it hadn't crossed my mind that the d-Mannose supplements might contain it.

https://yourolddog.com/treating-dog-...lutions-facts/

[bormal]

Thanks Katee, Grulla and Islander. I guess I will go no further with the enrofloxacin. I did give her one dose out of pure desperation. I have been giving the silver since Wednesday night with no obvious effect so far- giving D-Mannose and cranberry caps since last Sunday- also with no apparent effect. She has always up to this time had staph infections and my understanding is that these two only interfere with e-coli. I also dug up some past amoxicillin capsules and some keflex as well. I can try those if all else fails-although Roxie is VERY averse to taking antibiotics. She puts up a battle about these as with no other pill she has to take and they are nearly impossible to get into her. Thanks again.

[Islander]

Bormal, I think we all know so well how much our pets mean to us. And you've had those collies for a long time, they are part of your family. I hope with all my heart that you find something that works for Roxie and at least keeps her comfortable,if not completely cured. Remember, too, that some procedures take time before they become effective. Please don't give up hope. I wish you all the best!

[Pattypans]

Can dogs take high doses of Vitamin C?

[bormal]

Mine usually get diarrhea if I put too much in their food, I was wondering if this might help as well. I will try adding this to her diet as well. Thanks Pattypans!

[bormal]

I have good news- although I did give Roxie the Baytril, I felt I had to as the infection was already pretty severe, she was on it for about 8.5 days and has been off since last Sunday. She seems to be feeling pretty good at this point, and usually within a few days she was already showing symptoms of another uti. I don't know what made the difference, as I threw a lot of things in there out of desperation. I got some Chlorhexidine wipes and started using those-although I was washing her up at least once a day, this didn't seem to do the trick on its own. She is still getting the sovereign silver at least twice a day, as well as cranberry capsules. I ran out of the D-Mannose last weekend. I think if I use the cranberry this should cover what the D-Mannose could be expected to do- anybody disagree with this? If I never see another uti in either of my girls it will be too soon!
Thanks to everyone who commented.

[Islander]

Bormal, I'm so glad you finally seem to have gotten this under control! How old are your dogs?

[bormal]

I have no idea, Islander. I got them both through rescue- and no one told me when either was born. I have had Lucy (the younger one) since Sept. 2008, and Roxie, the older one, since November 2009. So neither is a young 'un. I am counting my blessings and hoping for more...

[Islander]

They are certainly handsome. My German Shepherd (and 2 of the cats) were rescues, but I have the dog'd complete history and birth date. (she's 4)