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Thread: A Vaccine for Depression? (ketamine)

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    Administrator Islander's Avatar
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    Default A Vaccine for Depression? (ketamine)

    You will need to read about halfway down to get to the main course.

    Taylor Beck
    December 17, 2015

    Ketamine’s remarkable effect bolsters a new theory of mental illness.


    One sunny day this fall, I caught a glimpse of the new psychiatry. At a mental hospital near Yale University, a depressed patient was being injected with ketamine. For 40 minutes, the drug flowed into her arm, bound for cells in her brain. If it acts as expected, ketamine will become the first drug to quickly stop suicidal drive, with the potential to save many lives. Other studies of ketamine are evaluating its effect as a vaccination against depression and post-traumatic stress. Between them, the goal is nothing less than to redefine our understanding of mental illness itself.

    Keep reading: https://getpocket.com/explore/item/a...Ufq_DrgnVi-Mzs

    Last edited by Islander; 02-15-19 at 10:47 AM.
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    Moderator Julieanne's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Vaccine for Depression?

    Fascinating!

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    Veteran Member Mr. Wizard's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Vaccine for Depression?

    Depression can be hard to treat. So, anything that helps should be championed. However, there are still lots of unknowns about the long term effects of ketamine. FDA approved for anesthesia, ketamine has NOT been FDA approved for depression. BigPharma is rushing to take advantage of "ketamine rave," working on ketaime nasal sprays, etc. IV infusion is the typical treatment mode. Ketamine clinics are popping up everywhere, charging anywhere from $350 to over a $1,000 per infusion. Since it's not yet FDA approved for depression, most insurance companies will not help with the cost. In addition, anesthesiologists argue they should be the only ones to administer the drug that can cause hallucinations. Psychiatrists are fearful of Ketamine clinics because they believe the drug should not be administered without complementary therapy sessions. Bottom line: there is no data on the long term effects of ketamine on the physical or mental health of people taking it. People fighting depression are hopeful about the positive results of ketamine, as they should be. However, some circumspection is still called for, as there's still a long list of unanswered questions about the drug.

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    Default Re: A Vaccine for Depression?

    Exactly. I would hesitate until those questions have been answered.
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    Veteran Member Mr. Wizard's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Vaccine for Depression?

    Apparently, Yale Univ. Medical School has been researching the treatment of depression with ketamine for over 20 years. And, the verdict is still out on this stuff. Based on their findings, I would proceed slowly. They found that: "1. in animal models, ketamine can have toxic effects on the brain if used early in life, and that repeated dosing at a high level can cause changes in the brain structure. Plus, there are potential cardiovascular and behavioral issues." This is not a drug one would take everyday, like the SSRIs. In fact, one is not allowed to drive for a full 24 hours after a single treatment. After over 20 yrs. of research at Yale, one would think this medication would have received a green light by now???

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    Default Re: A Vaccine for Depression?

    hey will you mind to try Kratom for your depression. As far as I know Kratom is highly recommended for mental depression.

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    Administrator Islander's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Vaccine for Depression?

    Rabada66, I ordered 7 varieties of kratom to experiment on myself. So far I've tried the yellow, red and green veins. The green vein knocked me out... midmorning, it put me to sleep! Now I read that the white vein is best fir depression, so I'll try that next. I'll let you know!
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    Default Re: A Vaccine for Depression?

    Here's another side to the ketamine debate, written by a practicing clinical psychologist "often at odds with the mainstream of his profession":
    https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/12...-suicide-drug/

    Islander, if you think this should be in a thread of its own, let me know and I'll start one with it.

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    Default Re: A Vaccine for Depression?

    That's a thoughtful article, Patty. Yes please, if you start a new thread in Emotional Health, I'll come back and delete this one.
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    Senior Member Stoneharbor's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Vaccine for Depression?

    I'd rather go with nutrient solutions than with drugs. Since Kitamine is not just a drug, but apparently still being tested, it might be better to go with known solutions, though they vary according to what the symptoms are, for things such as depression, bi-polar, ADHD, etc. But solutions have been out there that involve no drugs at all, and for 30 years!

    https://www.alternativementalhealth....l-disorders-2/

    Or if you are more a listener than a reader-researcher...

    https://thequantifiedbody.net/episod...lliam-j-walsh/

    https://myersdetox.com/93-overmethyl...albert-mensah/

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    Default Re: A Vaccine for Depression?

    I agree, Stoneharbor. (Great to "see" you, btw!) There's also cognitive behavioral therapy for some of those things.

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    Senior Member Stoneharbor's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Vaccine for Depression?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pattypans View Post
    I agree, Stoneharbor. (Great to "see" you, btw!) There's also cognitive behavioral therapy for some of those things.
    Yeah, I need to check in here once in a while. I like to read what's new in some forums but only so much time. Meanwhile, good ol' Dr. Mercola has reduced me to a "Level 1 Novice" because I often point out how he unfairly represents omega-3 supplements [apparently his big seller as Krill Oil]. I guess I should feel lucky he hasn't completely banned me! I am but a devil's advocate on that group now.

    I'm not familiar with cognitive behavioral therapy, except that it is a psychotherapy method. The thing about some of these illnesses is that they have a chemical or hereditary basis, and are not overcome until the chemical imbalance is fixed. Purging toxins and/or administering vitamins and minerals is such a quick, economical fix compared to trying to get a patient to become something that they aren't and can't be just by shear mind over matter exercises.

    I think there's an important place for things like cognitive behavioral therapy though. But if I knew someone with a problem I would recommend they first test for symptoms of chemical imbalance, and if found, proceed to fix that.

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    Senior Member Stoneharbor's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Vaccine for Depression?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pattypans View Post
    Here's another side to the ketamine debate, written by a practicing clinical psychologist "often at odds with the mainstream of his profession":
    https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/12...-suicide-drug/

    Islander, if you think this should be in a thread of its own, let me know and I'll start one with it.
    Also, regarding the counterpunch article, if you dig into William Walsh, Carl Pfeiffer, and Albert Mensah's work, you will find that they solved the puzzle of SSRI's long ago. Most suicides that occur during drug treatment are caused by SSRI's being given to patients who, though depressed, are suffering from a low-folate condition, or over-methylation. So patients that are under-methylated may have a successful outcome using SSRI's, patients that are overmethylated should never be given SSRI's. The two types of depression are easy to judge by 2 simple blood tests. The average doctor treating depression has no idea there are different types of chemically caused depression, and may treat all patients the same. There are approximately a full 30% of depression cases that should not be allowed near an SSRI prescription. Thanks to a lack of wisdom, we have many suicides and mass murders. The school shootings at Columbine and Virginia Tech are classic cases of students treated with SSRI antidepressants that went a bit in the wrong direction. After a number of such events, a warning was added to SSRI medication, but no nationwide reeducation of the prescribing doctors has been accomplished. Drug sales have grown instead of having been appropriately cut down by a third to avoid giving SSRI's to treat the wrong population of depressed patients.

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    Default Re: A Vaccine for Depression?

    Hi Stoneharbor, nice to see you again! Agree about Mercola; I hardly ever look in. I wonder why he doesn't just sell the newsletter arm of his corporate octopus to Gui and call it good. I, too, was knocked down from the gold & purple badge to Level Zero, where I remain. But get this: a recent Mercola article used "less" in a headline where "fewer" was the appropriate term. I saw it early that morning and posted that Dr. M needed a better editor: fewer = what can be counted, less is for what can't (less oil, fewer calories). Even supermarkets have reworded speedy checkout stations to read "fewer than 12 items." So what happened? When I looked in a couple of hours later, my post had been deleted (of course) but the headline had been revised to read "fewer." Haha!

    So I looked at your links. I was disappointed that the first one rarely offered any actual orthomolecular advice about how to treat a condition. Because of my hearing impairment, video doesn't work for me, but I was still hoping that someone would explain methylation. So far no one has covered it in such a way that I understand the process, but at least the third link (Dr. Albert Mensah) came close. Is there such a thing as normal methylation? Because I seem to fit neither extreme.
    BTW, when you speak of chemical imbalance, what diagnostic tool do you use? Is it hair analysis?
    ➤ Happiness is the frosting on the cake of contentment.

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    Senior Member Stoneharbor's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Vaccine for Depression?

    Ha ha ha! You entertain my more emotional side Islander! Especially that Mercola should turn over the forum to Gui!! There was a time when Gui would write me directly. I let Mercola have it with a full barrage of written canon fire in my last response, regarding his disregard for truth when it came to presenting issues in that he pushed people down with fake-votes when they dared to utter a disagreement. I now am quite sure Gui is just a Mercola shill, as he never answered me directly after that, but my rating went down to the bottom.

    I think I will direct-mail people on Mercola's list that are my old "friends" and invite them to other forums, including this one. I'm glad to hear that at least you got through to Mercola's editor and he changed the wording.

    - - -

    On the rest of your comments, yes, you are one of the reasons I tried to provide links that were both video and textual, remembering that you don't have time for video. Methylation is a difficult subject for anyone to explain it seems, but it's true that maybe half of us don't have methylation issues. Then those who have genetic tendencies, (that's the important word), usually have other counter-acting genetics or else epigenetic compensations, that make the genetic polymorphisms materially insignificant. As you may know, there are loads of doctors these days trying to capitalize on testing and fixing genetic SNPs of all kinds. It's the next great snake-oil rush, in my mind. Dr. Ben Lynch is (or was) a great one to work this angle, even producing seminars for fellow doctors a few years ago, when he had hardly a grasp on methylation, but saw it as a money maker. He's learned a lot, and corrected a lot since then, and he's very convincing as a salesman on a video. But he started out 2 decades behind William Walsh and Carl Pfeiffer.

    I will look around for some textual information on methylation. Walsh wrote a book, which I have, Nutrient Power. It has a great overview of all the vitamins and minerals found to cause most of the mental disorders. He and Pfeiffer compiled a database as they worked. So clinically, they are the best of sources because they could run analyses of the database and spot what were the most likely correlations between foods, toxins, and disabilities. They were nothing but meticulous.

    Yes, there are simple blood test that show methylation difficulties. There's also personality tests that are easy to run yourself through. It doesn't take long to figure out most of the problems. And the solutions take just a few weeks usually, though schizophrenia is the hardest to fully resolve.

    A search for "blood tests for undermethylation" turned up many articles, but here's just one:

    http://www.truevitality.com.au/artic...r-methylation/

    Blood tests for undermethylation are (per Walsh) whole blood histamine above 70 ng/ml, elevated blood basophils, and depressed SAMe/SAH ratio.

    Blood tests for overmethylation are whole blood histamine below 40 ng/ml, a basophil count below 30, elevated SAMe/SAH ratio, and low serum folate.

    Remember, there are other conditions that also cause mental problems besides methylation. The main two are Pyroluria and toxic overload (commonly copper).

    Excuse the underlines. it popped up from the link. Can't seem to turn it off!
    Last edited by Islander; 01-17-19 at 12:42 PM.

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