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Thread: Carbs, Fibre And Ongoing Diet Wars

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    Moderator Julieanne's Avatar
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    Default Carbs, Fibre And Ongoing Diet Wars

    ANH International
    January 16 2019

    The story that made headlines around the world about fibre (see The Guardian) and at the end of last week isn’t going to be a flash in the pan. On the back of it, you can be sure it will be used by governments and the food industry to get us back onto the bread and cereals wagon.
    Low carb diets are already under attack because of it – and that battle will continue. The grain and baking industries are going to be thanking their lucky stars that they now have a potent piece of science to justify their existence – and their profits.


    Read more: https://www.anhinternational.org/new...b0427-85014029

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    Senior Member Stoneharbor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carbs, Fibre And Ongoing Diet Wars

    The Guardian article is essentially an attack on low-carb diets, in defense of the cereal industry. It's a great example of distortion, a marvelous tool of fake news. It only mentions grains as the source of fiber, and of course grain is anything but low in carbs. But most people who study low carb dieting and other aspects of getting nutrient rich foods know that a low-carb diet need not be low in fiber at all and yet can avoid all grains. I eat as much fiber as anyone, and without an ounce of grains or beans. Vegetable fiber is just one of the things that green leafy vegetables are packed with. Yet I can eat a large serving of greens twice a day and still stay low carb.

    Another thing that is being promoted now to the public in general is a total carnivore diet. It started as a panacea for lower bowel problems like Crohn's, Diverticulosis, Ulcerative Colitis, IBS. Cutting out fiber for those ailments seems to really help. But now carnivore diets are being sold as great for humanity as a whole. I tend to not be swayed, but don't care if others want to try that. It can't hurt for a short while, and seems essential for getting over some gut problems.

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    Administrator Islander's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carbs, Fibre And Ongoing Diet Wars

    Honestly, this article makes me stabby. As Stoneharbor points out, low-carb and low-fiber are not synonymous. I manage my Type 2 diabetes with diet and exercise (and according to the medical industry, I'm no longer diabetic) but I had to research that myself since the industry apparently wants to keep us sick and medicated. I try to eat as close to the imaginary paleo diet as possible, but the key to managing T2DM is to avoid the starchy carbs: rice, pasta (and all grains), potatoes and other root vegetables in moderation. Sadly, T2DM nutritionists all stress whole-grain breads.
    :: deep sigh ::

    Then there's this:
    "The review found only limited evidence that diets with a low glycaemic index and low glycaemic load protected people against stroke and type 2 diabetes. Glycaemic load is a measure of how much a food will raise blood glucose levels after eating it. Low GI foods may also contain added sugars, saturated fats, and sodium..." That is, pardon me, total horse pucky. The key word there is may. Diabetics who eat low glycemic load whole foods will successfully manage their condition. Those who choose processed foods will indeed be consuming "added sugars, saturated fats, and sodium," guaranteed. I grow and preserve for winter, about 95% of what I eat (excluding beef and lamb, which I buy from local farmers; I raise my own pork and chicken). I buy nothing that comes in boxes, bags, cans or jars. Well ok, sardines. And sometimes, gluten-free crackers.
    Clearly the bakers will have a glorious ride with this one.
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    Veteran Member Maurya's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carbs, Fibre And Ongoing Diet Wars

    I'm pretty sure that I get plenty of fiber in my diet from my daily cooked greens and/or salad greens, with no help at all from grains or beans, along with their concomitant gluten, lectins, and other nasties.

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    Senior Member Stoneharbor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carbs, Fibre And Ongoing Diet Wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Islander View Post
    Clearly the bakers will have a glorious ride with this one.
    Actually the bakers may have a short ride up, but then lots more down. The trend, as people learn what's poisoning them, is toward less grains and less refined foods in general.

    Regarding that key word, "May", that's one that I've learned is a glaring sign of a cheat. A person should not even make the statement if they have to put "may" in there.

    On the subject of starchy carbs, what's your experience with resistance starch, such as cooked and cooled potatoes that supposedly don't then digest in the small intestine like other starches, but pass on to the colon to be digested by bacteria or experience no digestion at all into sugars.

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    Default Re: Carbs, Fibre And Ongoing Diet Wars

    I have been practicing the "resistant starch" method with both rice and potatoes. At first I thought that reheating would negate the effect, but further research showed that it was just the opposite: it enhanced the resistance even more. Since I've controlled my A1c at 5.1, I don't bother to test any more so I have no evidence to show that it works. I just assume that what I've read from a variety of sources is true.
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    Veteran Member grulla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carbs, Fibre And Ongoing Diet Wars

    "I have been practicing the "resistant starch" method with both rice and potatoes. At first I thought that reheating would negate the effect, but further research showed that it was just the opposite: it enhanced the resistance even more." It might, depending which veggies one reheats, according to this simple four category RS chart at one of the Precision Nutrition websites. Your rice and potatoes appear to conform to category "Type 3: Retrograded". The WHOLE oat groatmeal that I prepare, that we recently discussed on another HH thread appears to conform to "Type 1, Physically Inaccessible". And beyond that, I refrigerate the groatmeal after cooking, with the diced apple, for 24 hours, anyway.
    https://www.hawkeshealth.net/communi...hlight=oatmeal
    https://www.precisionnutrition.com/a...sistant-starch
    Last edited by grulla; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:02 PM.

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    Administrator Islander's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carbs, Fibre And Ongoing Diet Wars

    Thanks for the sources, Grulla, but I found the second one confusing. Whole oatmeal groats, uncooked, rate the highest, but no one eats them that way (except horses and sheep!) and oats appear nowhere in the 4 categories. How did you verify that when cooked and cooled, they become RS?
    And what about category 1? What does "Cannot be broken down" actually mean? Does one get no value at all from legumes and seeds? Because I regularly eat sunflower, pumpkin and hemp seeds... and black beans and white beans!
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    Veteran Member grulla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carbs, Fibre And Ongoing Diet Wars

    RS Type 1: Physically inaccessible
    Cannot be broken down by digestive enzymes.Found in: legumes, whole and partially milled grains, seeds.

    In that RS chart:It tells me/us that whole grains are not digested as starch. Granted, it's poorly written.
    "Uncooked" is stated in RS Type 2, not the RS Type 1 And RS Type 3 that I referred to in my comment.
    Last edited by grulla; 4 Weeks Ago at 11:13 AM.

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    Administrator Islander's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carbs, Fibre And Ongoing Diet Wars

    "whole grains are not digested as starch.." Fine, but I don't eat whole grains, or grains of any kind. But what about legumes and seeds? I think we need a different source.
    As for "uncooked," my point exactly. What are the numbers for cooked oats? We aren't told.
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    Veteran Member grulla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carbs, Fibre And Ongoing Diet Wars

    Again, "uncooked" was referred to in the website chart's RS2 category, NOT the RS1 and RS3 categories that I had referred to in my above comment. And it must be assumed that all oats consumed by humans are cooked, not raw.

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    Default Re: Carbs, Fibre And Ongoing Diet Wars

    "And it must be assumed that all oats consumed by humans are cooked, not raw." Once again: the chart shows the amount for uncooked, specifically, but nowhere is there a figure for cooked!

    Here's one example:
    Oats are one of the most convenient ways to add resistant starch to your diet.
    3.5 ounces (100 grams) of cooked oatmeal flakes may contain around 3.6 grams of resistant starch. Oats are also high in antioxidants and are a whole grain (9).
    Letting your cooked oats cool for several hours or overnight could increase the resistant starch even further.

    https://www.healthline.com/nutrition...tarch#section2
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    Senior Member Stoneharbor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carbs, Fibre And Ongoing Diet Wars

    Well, I'm not suggesting anyone eat oats, but my pattern for breakfast for probably 10 years before I switched over to greens, was to eat oats. First with soy milk, then with just water, and finally, for at least 2-3 years, I ate rolled oats with just water that was not even heated. I never had a problem. Didn't know a thing about resistant starch either. So humans can definitely do fine on rolled oats that haven't even been heated. But I agree, knowing what we know about resistant starch, it's better to heat then cool oats before eating them.

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    Veteran Member grulla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carbs, Fibre And Ongoing Diet Wars

    "Islander", I was referring to the quadrant chart, and apparently you are referring to the chart below that says,"Unrolled, uncooked oats". I duck searched those exact words and lo 'n behold, it's true, one can eat raw whole oats, (groats).
    https://www.livestrong.com/article/4...tmeal-healthy/

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    Default Re: Carbs, Fibre And Ongoing Diet Wars

    Thanks for finding that article, Grulla. That's the best explanation for what we're trying to suss out. It doesn't include the figures for resistant starch, but we already have that information. I'll point out, though, that it's still not talking about oat groats, but "flaked" oats (rolled oats or oatmeal). Don't see why that should matter, though.
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