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Thread: World Health Organization declares Sweden the model for the world

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    Veteran Member Stoneharbor's Avatar
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    Default World Health Organization declares Sweden the model for the world

    Jackie Salo,
    April 29, 2020

    WHO may have stabbed Dr. Fauci's grand "sequestration until vaccination" plan in the back. At least the rug seems to have been pulled from beneath Fauci's feet.

    They've just announced that Sweden should be seen as the model to follow on Coronavirus: no governmental mandates - the people know how to protect their health and leave them alone to do it.

    https://nypost.com/2020/04/29/who-lauds-sweden-as-model-for-resisting-coronavirus-lockdown/


    https://www.aier.org/article/lockdow...ohan-giesecke/

    https://www.foxnews.com/world/who-sw...-for-the-world

    Mostly covered by conservative media and covered in a positive light.

    But Bloomberg has come out with another view. They have to take exception with WHO in this case. There's bound to be other opinions on this once more research is done.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...ronavirus-code
    Last edited by Stoneharbor; 3 Weeks Ago at 06:49 AM.

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    Veteran Member Mr. Wizard's Avatar
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    Default Re: World Health Organization declares Sweden the model for the world

    According to Reuters, Prime Minister Stefan Lofven banned public gatherings of more than 50 people, down from 500 initially imposed to stop the spread of COVID-19, threatening fines and/or up to 6 months in prison for violators. Limiting public gatherings to 50 people or less put the kibosh on all sporting events and a host of public activities. It was tantamount to a stay-at-home because people could not attend concerts, movie theatres, or any places where than more than 50 people could gather. Keep reading:
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN21E1XY

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    Veteran Member Stoneharbor's Avatar
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    Default Re: World Health Organization declares Sweden the model for the world

    You are so right, they did always have that crowd control order. People in other countries, like the USA, would love to have only that little restriction. Personally, I don't consider that tantamount to a stay at home order. I'd love to be able to see people walking the streets as before. That was the normal, outside life that people always enjoyed 95% of the time they were out. Now, outside Sweden one has to claim they are headed to a store to buy necessities or they are suspect, especially if walking as a couple. People would also like to be able to work as usual, unless they happen to be getting more from their unemployment check than they did while working.

    If Sweden doesn't have bodies / square foot restrictions in restaurants, then they enjoy a great personal freedom also. I just learned that the state of Georgia has removed most restrictions now, so I called some restaurants there to see if sit-down service is available. No, either the cities have ordinances still in place or the restaurant owner still has not decided to allow inside service. Restaurants are reluctant to open if they can't make more than 25% of the gross that they could make when they could seat people at every table.

    It's going to take a while to get the rest of the world up to the level of freedom that Sweden has. They are experiencing quicker immunity. That brings along with quicker loss of life of the vulnerable during the early stage of the spread. Thus a higher death rate initially, but a similar death rate by the end of the period to gain immunity. It sure seems to me like Sweden has the best possible outcome, both during, and after the spread. I am envious!

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    Default Re: World Health Organization declares Sweden the model for the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoneharbor View Post
    You are so right, they did always have that crowd control order. People in other countries, like the USA, would love to have only that little restriction. Personally, I don't consider that tantamount to a stay at home order. . . . I'd love to be able to see people walking the streets as before. It sure seems to me like Sweden has the best possible outcome, both during, and after the spread. I am envious!
    I agree. Here in Rio, masks are now obilgatory everywhere but in your house, and you can't even take a walk on the beach. (On the sidewalk near it, yes, but not on the sand.)

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    Moderator Julieanne's Avatar
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    Default Re: World Health Organization declares Sweden the model for the world

    I find it difficult to tell what has worked and what has not: every country has handled this in a different way. In my state of Western Australia, the Premier responded early and has done a great job. People came out onto the streets and applauded him one evening, even though many (including me) didn't vote for him. Masks are voluntary - I have only seen two people wearing them. The same lockdowns as elsewhere, social distancing and self isolation. We have had few deaths and no new cases for the last couple of days. And no protests!

    One thing that has been a surprise - a National Cabinet was formed, and both parties have been working co-operatively - no political divisiveness. How refreshing! Shows what can be done when the chips are down.

    The government released a phone app that shows whether you have been in contact with an infected person for 15 minutes to speed up tracing. Surprisingly, over 4 million people downloaded it in a short time. I can't imagine this working in the US, with Americans distrust of government. We had to have a lot of assurances that this info will not be used in any other way, and there were many questions. But restrictions are now being eased, cautiously and gradually. Overall, I feel extremely lucky to live where I do.
    Last edited by Julieanne; 3 Weeks Ago at 05:44 AM.

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    Veteran Member Stoneharbor's Avatar
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    Default Re: World Health Organization declares Sweden the model for the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Julieanne View Post

    The government released a phone app that shows whether you have been in contact with an infected person for 15 minutes to speed up tracing. Surprisingly, over 4 million people downloaded it in a short time.
    I find it amazing, the compliance of governments with the dictates of the medical professions, even though SOMEBODY in some government somewhere must realize that what the people most need to know is just the protective effects of sunlight, vitamin C, zinc, magnesium and selenium. I was just writing here today on how protective even vitamin C alone, or selenium alone, are against coming down with a viral infection.

    In the USA at the moment, the media is obsessed with getting as many people as possible tested. I have no idea what the objective is, except to make busy work for the government. Yet this mantra seems to actually be pushing the government in this costly, ineffective direction. People say testing, and they want widespread testing. Yet the most revealing tests are those done on a sector of the population in that those kinds of tests reveal that we are approaching the point at which half the population is testing positive. It only takes a test here and there to show that the virus has minimal impact on the average person, who much of the time now already has immunity. This universal testing is just the latest, costly ruse to keep people confused about the danger.

    I'll throw this in here, but will start a new thread with it also. It details how even the most squalid living conditions in the USA, and poor people living in such conditions, can't bring down a significant number of people with symptoms of the Coronavirus:

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...m_medium=email

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    Default Re: World Health Organization declares Sweden the model for the world

    The majority of Americans are displaying a commonsense attitude toward quarantine and social distancing. They are uncomfortable with relaxing the standard too soon because in places where it was done, an immediate backlash occurred and deaths spiked. Georgia is one example; another is Hokkaido, Japan. The island dealt with the pandemic primarily through a strict lockdown policy, one able to strongly limit the effects of the disease and its spread that because of its success became widely known throughout Japan as "the Hokkaido model."
    Unfortunately, pressure from business interests which prematurely cited this success as their rationale caused these restrictions to be suspended on March 19. Within three weeks the number of active cases had soared by 80%. That's how quickly and significantly this highly infectious disease can make a comeback.
    On April 14 the island's prefecture governor regretfully acknowledged that with the second wave of coronavirus infection, this one largely seeded by contact within the native population, suspension of the lockdown had quickly transformed an original model public health success into a disaster. The lockdown was reinstated.
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    Veteran Member Maurya's Avatar
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    Default Re: World Health Organization declares Sweden the model for the world

    Here on our islands, tomorrow is the day the rubber will begin meeting the road. Masks are required in all stores and public spaces. Most businesses and offices will be open again. Restaurants and bars still will be open for take out only for a while longer. The beaches already are open and are crowded with people. Most importantly, IMHO, is that the flights from elsewhere will resume, bringing in tourists and others from the states and from everywhere. We have been pretty lucky so far, with few deaths from Covid. I do say "lucky", as we really have done nothing all that smart other than living on an island, where road traffic from nearby states does not exist. Our people are just as obtuse and selfish here as they are anywhere else.

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    Veteran Member grulla's Avatar
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    Default Re: World Health Organization declares Sweden the model for the world

    I can't help having this uncomfortable gut feeling that from here on in, wearing masks, especially in densely populated areas, is going to be the new norm and a permanent way of life, just like you always see on the news that Chinese and other Asian people in urban centers are always wearing masks due to air pollution smog.
    Last edited by grulla; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:17 PM.

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    Veteran Member grulla's Avatar
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    Default Re: World Health Organization declares Sweden the model for the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Maurya View Post
    Here on our islands, tomorrow is the day the rubber will begin meeting the road. Masks are required in all stores and public spaces......
    "Here on the islands..." Say, I wonder if half a coconut shell would make for a suitable mask.
    Last edited by grulla; 3 Weeks Ago at 07:50 AM.

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    Veteran Member Stoneharbor's Avatar
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    Default Re: World Health Organization declares Sweden the model for the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Maurya View Post
    We have been pretty lucky so far, with few deaths from Covid. I do say "lucky", as we really have done nothing all that smart other than living on an island, where road traffic from nearby states does not exist. Our people are just as obtuse and selfish here as they are anywhere else.
    Maurya, you are lucky to live on the island you do. It's low population density, far lower than high-rise cities, or even Burmuda, leaves it with as little as about 1/10th as deadly an effect from the virus as the cities. See the table in my link on the population density correlation.

    https://www.citylab.com/equity/2020/...l-data/609394/

    Also, tropical island life doesn't just allow, but encourages more time spent outside, thus more UV light that nullifies the virus on bodies and also on other surfaces, usually within just minutes. People living in cities have always tended to isolate their bodies indoors where viruses may survive on surfaces as long as 12 to 36 hours. That presence of virus on surfaces is a threat even if other humans that can carry virus are not within sight and haven't been for several days.

    Indoor life is the last thing any of us should strive for, mandated or not, if we wish to be healthy. People living in the suburbs and in rural settings can get outdoors and in the sunlight and sit on virus-clean furniture and walk on virus free surfaces all while keeping whatever distance from others they wish to have. People in cities don't have a way to do this even in the best of times. They have always been much more in contact with viruses than country people.

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    Administrator Islander's Avatar
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    Default Re: World Health Organization declares Sweden the model for the world

    I would say this is true of retired people or trust fund babies who have lots of free time. Working people, whether in the city or the country, r apt to be indoors from Monday through Friday. When the weekend comes? Some country people are going to seek relaxation or entertainment indoors. Some city people will be out in the parks, or cycling, or strolling through botanical gardens, or playing sports, like tennis or softball or volleyball. I have families in both locations and they are all equally unpredictable!
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