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Thread: New York City Banned Gas in New Buildings. Here’s What You Need to Know

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    Veteran Member grulla's Avatar
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    Default New York City Banned Gas in New Buildings. Here’s What You Need to Know

    THIS 2021 SUBJECT JUST NOW CAME TO MY ATTENTION ON A TV NEWS UPDATE THIS MORNING

    Samantha Maldonado
    Dec 15, 2021

    The City Council on Wednesday passed a bill making New York the largest city in the United States to effectively ban the use of gas in new buildings and to turn to electricity for power.
    More than 50 municipalities in California have all-electric building codes, and other cities, including Seattle and Ithaca, are advancing electrification in new buildings. But no other American city has a dense building stock like New York, which faces colder seasonal temperatures compared to most places that have adopted similar legislation.

    Continue reading at: https://www.thecity.nyc/2021/12/15/2...s-what-to-know
    Last edited by grulla; 10-15-22 at 08:44 AM.

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    Veteran Member grulla's Avatar
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    Default Re: New York City Banned Gas in New Buildings. Here’s What You Need to Know

    We have many solar farms today generating much electricity, but much of the electric hi-tension transmission line grids are very old and shaky, such as igniting forest fires in California. So with the added demands of electric vehicle, and all these new all-electric hi-rises, this is going to be very "interesting"???
    Last edited by grulla; 10-15-22 at 11:02 AM.

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    Veteran Member grulla's Avatar
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    Default Re: New York City Banned Gas in New Buildings. Here’s What You Need to Know

    Actually, we need to bury as much powerlines as possible to increase reliability and with much less electro-magnetic field (EMF) exposure, (think Leukemia) . And converting alternate current (AC) powerlines to direct current (DC) powerlines where ever cost effective, whether aerial or burial, is yet another option, and with both buried for less EMF exposure. https://oca.dc.gov/page/dcplug ~~~ https://energycentral.com/c/ec/ac-vs...lectrical-grid
    Last edited by grulla; 10-16-22 at 07:40 AM.

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    Default Re: New York City Banned Gas in New Buildings. Here’s What You Need to Know

    I have no idea what all of this entails, being unfamiliar with the mechanics and the language, but I do know there's a strong tendency toward replacing propane fired stoves with electric ones. My understanding is that gas stoves release unhealthy methane, even when they are not actually in use. Unfortunately, my gas stove replaced a woodfired stove that had outlived its usefulness, so there is no way that I can afford to replace my current gas stove with an electric model. That will be up to the new owner of the house once I'm gone.
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    Veteran Member grulla's Avatar
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    Default Re: New York City Banned Gas in New Buildings. Here’s What You Need to Know

    [QUOTE=Islander;89777]... My understanding is that gas stoves release unhealthy methane, even when they are not actually in use. ... /QUOTE] The only way a gas stove could release methane when not in use is that the pilot lights keep on burning. I had the pilot lights on my Magic Chef kitchen stove shut off and have to ignite the stove top burners with a welder's flint sparkler. And the oven needs to be lit with a match. Spare flints for the sparkler are kept on hand, all of which is available in most hardware stores. https://www.homedepot.ca/product/ber...ter/1000182664 Example, not spam.

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    Veteran Member grulla's Avatar
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    Default Re: New York City Banned Gas in New Buildings. Here’s What You Need to Know

    Propane "autogas" is said to be an environmentally friendly alternative to gasoline and diesel fuel, and very popular in Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autogas ~~~ https://allianceautogas.com/what-is-autogas/

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    Veteran Member Maurya's Avatar
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    Default Re: New York City Banned Gas in New Buildings. Here’s What You Need to Know

    I fail to understand how a natural gas or propane stove could release methane, unless it has a pilot light. I have a propane stove, as do most people around here because electricity is prohibitively expensive. During one of our frequent power surges from the electrical utility, the control panel which included the electronic ignition system got fried, right through the surge protector. As this is an older stove, the control panel was found to be no longer available. So now one must use two hands to light the stove, one to turn on the fuel, with the other hand holding the match or lighter. No big deal. It was easy to become used to this change in procedure.

    As well, I question the whole hog effort to promote electric everything, stoves, heating, vehicles, etc. Perhaps yes, perhaps not. Would it not depend upon how the electricity has been produced? Switching the location of the fossil fuel pollution from the point of use to the point of production in the electrical generation plant accomplishes little. Until one know that the electricity has been produced using renewable resources such as solar or wind power, I can't see that anything positive has been achieved with the big switch to electricity.

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    Veteran Member Maurya's Avatar
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    Default Re: New York City Banned Gas in New Buildings. Here’s What You Need to Know

    The controversy between electrical distribution lines being strung along poles above ground versus being buried in conduit underground has been a huge political football here, ever since all of our electrical distribution lines were knocked down and were completely destroyed during the hurricanes of five years ago. There was a huge hue and cry when the contractors came here to put up the new large composite poles rather than digging for underground conduits. The argument for using the improved poles was that an immense voltage loss takes place due to the heat factor in the underground conduits over many miles of service lines. We have one power generation plant which serves the entire island. When it goes down, frequently, the whole island goes dark. We still are located in the tropics, so the heat related voltage losses are quite a real factor. I am not in a position to argue effectively one way or the other, and anyway nobody except for the guy on the next bar stool would listen to me.

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    Veteran Member grulla's Avatar
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    Default Re: New York City Banned Gas in New Buildings. Here’s What You Need to Know

    Quote Originally Posted by Maurya View Post
    .... There was a huge hue and cry when the contractors came here to put up the new large composite poles rather than digging for underground conduits. The argument for using the improved poles was that an immense voltage loss takes place due to the heat factor in the underground conduits over many miles of service lines....
    I briefly lived and also visited (north) Phoenix, Az from 1975 to the mid eighties. All the residential homes there have backyard utility ally ways with buried power line service loop connections (and also telco, water, and cable TV), with the power company transformers in steel cabinets on concrete pads. As far as cable "heat loss" is concerned in St. Croix, there is nothing much hotter than Phoenix, AZ in the summer where air conditioners and evaporative (swamp) coolers operate full time. If ever the issue of buried VS aerial power lines should ever come up again in St. Croix, tell those 'engineers' to visit North Phoenix. FWIW, I have often suspected that some power company engineers and execs are beholden to pole line manufacturers, as it does not seem to make good sense to build and constantly replace pole lines in high wind and hurricane areas, or for that matter, anywhere else. And I might add that most all of NYC has buried power lines and wants to increase power demands, as this HH thread above implies..
    Last edited by grulla; 10-18-22 at 09:44 AM.

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    Default Re: New York City Banned Gas in New Buildings. Here’s What You Need to Know

    I have a propane gas stove, but never use the oven part, just the top burners. I absolutely hate electric burners - take forever to heat up and cool down. Gas burners give me more control, I can see what I am doing and can lower or raise the heat immediately. I have a 38 litre convection oven outside the kitchen for baking, which means it doesn't heat up the kitchen in summer. At under $250 it was well worth it. I bought it locally, but it's available from Amazon. https://www.amazon.com.au/Panasonic-...02291148&psc=1

    New suburbs all have cables underground. One thing that hasn't been mentioned - having buried cables mean you are able to plant relatively large street trees, which cool the environment around them. Older suburbs have trees that have to be regularly pruned to keep them in check, which leaves them looking odd and ugly. We will never get buried cables in my area, as the soil is too rocky - it would be too costly. This was originally a forest, so there are trees everywhere anyway.
    Last edited by Julieanne; 10-17-22 at 11:06 PM.

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    Veteran Member Maurya's Avatar
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    Default Re: New York City Banned Gas in New Buildings. Here’s What You Need to Know

    Yes, Grulla, and I was on the side which was recommending that the electrical power lines be buried underground in conduit, but as I said, nobody is listening to the opinion of the average person.

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    Veteran Member grulla's Avatar
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    Default Re: New York City Banned Gas in New Buildings. Here’s What You Need to Know

    Quote Originally Posted by Julieanne;89784...
    I have a propane gas stove, but never use the oven part, just the top burners....
    The gas oven is important to me for Adele Davis 24 hour slow roasting.

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    Default Re: New York City Banned Gas in New Buildings. Here’s What You Need to Know

    If this all electric cooking ever becomes more popular, then I can see where induction cooking is going to advance much. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_cooking

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    Default Re: New York City Banned Gas in New Buildings. Here’s What You Need to Know

    Quote Originally Posted by grulla View Post
    The gas oven is important to me for Adele Davis 24 hour slow roasting.
    If you click on the link I posted, you will see that this particular model will cook at a very low temperature - you can even make yoghourt! And to your other comment re induction cooking, I have been thinking the same.

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    Veteran Member grulla's Avatar
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    Default Re: New York City Banned Gas in New Buildings. Here’s What You Need to Know

    Quote Originally Posted by Julieanne View Post
    ....And to your other comment re induction cooking, I have been thinking the same.
    Yeah, one can purchase an economical, single stand-alone induction, counter top, cooker without making a major investment into a complete induction kitchen range. At the very least, it's a good "starter kit" and either a temporary or permanent addition to one's existing gas or electric kitchen range, that allows one to see how they like it before possibly buying larger induction range.
    All the cooking utensils have to be ferro-magnetic for the induction cooker to function, meaning no ceramic or aluminum pots will work, and that's a blessing about the toxic aluminum. As for stainless steel (SS) pots, depending on the alloy, some are faintly magnetic while others are seemingly NON-magnetic, so make sure to ask the right question about the SS situation, as to it's acceptability to induction cooking. Cast iron pans should work great. One might also inquire about EMF safety, just like MW ovens???
    Last edited by grulla; 10-21-22 at 10:27 AM.

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