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Thread: Boehringer wins first US OK in blood-thinner race

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    Administrator Islander's Avatar
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    Default Boehringer wins first US OK in blood-thinner race

    Tue Oct 19, 2010

    LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - German drugmaker Boehringer Ingelheim won the first U.S. approval for a new stroke-fighting medicine that will compete in an estimated $10 billion market for drugs to replace the 65-year-old blood thinner warfarin.
    The Food and Drug Administration cleared Boehringer's drug, Pradaxa, for preventing strokes in patients with a type of irregular heart beat.

    The approval gives Boehringer a head start over several other drugmakers, including partners Bayer and Johnson & Johnson, and Bristol-Myers Squibb Co and Pfizer, that are working on competing drugs. Pradaxa and potential rivals are alternatives to warfarin, a problematic medicine originally developed as rat poison.

    Warfarin is the treatment of choice for people at high risk of stroke due to atrial fibrillation, a common form of irregular heart beat. But the drug interacts badly with food and other medicines, carries a high risk of bleeding and requires regular blood tests.
    In September, an FDA advisory panel voted 9-0 to recommend approval of Pradaxa, which also carries a risk of serious bleeding.
    The warfarin replacement market is expected to be worth more than $10 billion a year and possibly as much as $20 billion. Bayer Chief Executive Werner Wenning recently put the opportunity at $12 billion to $15 billion.

    At least eight potential warfarin replacements are currently being tested by major drugmakers. An estimated 2.3 million Americans have atrial fibrillation, and the prevalence is expected to grow to 5.6 million by 2050 as the population ages, Boehringer said.

    Boehringer, now controlled by great-grandchildren of the company's founder, suffered a setback in June when U.S. advisers rejected the company's experimental sex pill for women. The company recently halted development of that drug.
    (Reporting by Lisa Richwine and Deena Beasley; Editing by Steve Orlofsky)

    http://tinyurl.com/3xj8qq7

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    Veteran Member mellowsong's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boehringer wins first US OK in blood-thinner race

    Proteolytic enzymes such as NATTOKINASE or LUMBROKINASE are the answer. Of course, they can't be patented so are completely overlooked and discredited by the pharmaceutical and medical industries.

    These work on fibrinogen and actually DISSOLVE clots, not just help prevent. They have been proven to REVERSE coronary artery blockage in 2 years. They are also potent anti-inflammatory agents. These enzymes carry very little risk of excess bleeding compared to warfarin.

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    Administrator Islander's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boehringer wins first US OK in blood-thinner race

    You know, I could swear I made that very comment, Mello. Maybe I forgot to hit the POST button? We old folks have these memory lapses, y'know?

    One does have to be careful with the kinases, though. I was taking Nattokinase 3x/day for a while and then, twice in a row, I knocked my hand and my knee and noticed a lot of sub-cue bleeding that spread and took a very long time to resorb. At that point I cut out the supplementation completely. Don't think I really need it anyway. Any potential clots I might have had are long gone!

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    Veteran Member LabDoc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boehringer wins first US OK in blood-thinner race

    Have to take exception to the use of the word 'preventing'. The implication here is that if you take Pradaxa you 'will not' have a stroke - like warfarin, this is simply incorrect. Anticoagulants acting on the Extrinsic coagulation Factors II, V, VII, and X, have been proven to REDUCE the risk of stroke, pulmonary embolism, deep vein thrombosis, NOT prevent them happening.
    Use of kinases should be reserved for hospitalized patients because of their potency and require more blood tests to regulate the dosage than warfarin. If bleeding occurs when on kinases it is a Medical Emergency and pro coagulants need to be administered, merely stopping the medication is not enough. I have personally seen several patients literally bleed to death due to kinases.

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    Veteran Member Reesacat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boehringer wins first US OK in blood-thinner race

    LabDoc-were the patients on Nattokinase? I am curious since in the USA it is sold as an OTC supplement, recommended by many alternate health practitioners since 1990's. I haven't heard of any deaths due to Nattokinase as far as I can recall. (Nattokinase made from fermented nattocheese/soybeans).
    Last edited by Reesacat; 10-22-10 at 02:24 PM.

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    Veteran Member mellowsong's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boehringer wins first US OK in blood-thinner race

    LabDoc, come off it. I am not talking about urokinase etc, I'm talking about natto and lumbro kinase. I don't believe you've had anyone bleed to death from taking these. These are over the counter. When I used "prevent" I am well aware that they don't prevent these events but lessen the risk...should have been more explicit I guess.

    However, the OTC kinases are safe, even in high doses. I replaced coumadin with nattokinase 3 years ago (have a genetic clotting disorder and had spontaneous multiple bilateral pulmonary emboli in 1998). I can eat whatever I want, no blood tests required ...sorry but I take extreme exception to your fear tactics when you don't know what you are talking about.

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    Veteran Member LabDoc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boehringer wins first US OK in blood-thinner race

    Mellow, sorry if I have upset you. I was speaking of Streptokinase without realizing you were referring to OTC kinases. I was not objecting to your use of the word 'preventing', but in Islanders quoted article, was not having a go at you at all. Just in relation to Streptokinase, these are not fear tactics, they are facts, for the record, I ran a Coagulation Laboratory in a major hospital for several years in my previous life, so think I do know what I am talking about. Please pardon me for my misinterpretation, think I read what I wanted to read instead of what was written on your post. Mea Culpa
    Last edited by LabDoc; 10-23-10 at 12:05 PM.

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    Veteran Member Reesacat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boehringer wins first US OK in blood-thinner race

    Thank you, LabDoc. Streptokinase is scary stuff-in USA only available by prescription as is urokinase. Anyone on those drugs needs constant monitoring by MD.

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    Veteran Member mellowsong's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boehringer wins first US OK in blood-thinner race

    Quote Originally Posted by LabDoc
    Mellow, sorry if I have upset you. I was speaking of Streptokinase without realizing you were referring to OTC kinases. I was not objecting to your use of the word 'preventing', but in Islanders quoted article, was not having a go at you at all. Just in relation to Streptokinase, these are not fear tactics, they are facts, for the record, I ran a Coagulation Laboratory in a major hospital for several years in my previous life, so think I do know what I am talking about. Please pardon me for my misinterpretation, think I read what I wanted to read instead of what was written on your post. Mea Culpa
    Apology accepted. I guess I got a little upset. I felt insulted and that people would see the "doc" in your name and immediately assume you were right So, therefore, I also apologize for over reacting

    I have had such remarkable results from nattokinase as far as pain, inflammation and anti coagulation that I am a huge believer in it. For example, my hsCRP came down fro 7 to 0.3, ESR from >99 to 15. Pain is manageable with fish oil, natto and a occasional naproxen, vs almost 300mg of morphine/day.

    I was an RN before I was injured and believe me, yes, I have seen people bleed to death from strepto and urokinase (as well as the miraculous turn arounds during stroke) It can happen even when used appropriately and I would never advise anyone to mess around with these So, I do understand where you were coming from also.


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    Veteran Member LabDoc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boehringer wins first US OK in blood-thinner race

    WoW Mellow! Fantastic results with the natto, you must be so pleased. Wish some of us 'trained conservatives' could get through to the 'old school' types.

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    Veteran Member mellowsong's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boehringer wins first US OK in blood-thinner race

    Quote Originally Posted by LabDoc
    WoW Mellow! Fantastic results with the natto, you must be so pleased. Wish some of us 'trained conservatives' could get through to the 'old school' types.
    Yeah that's for sure I forgot to say that I replaced 9 years of Coumadin with nattokinase (and fish oil) with excellent results. Since I'm a klutz in the kitchen...I do my own bleeding times, lol. I got off Coumadin because once I changed my diet to unprocessed, whole foods, they absolutely could not get my INR therapeutic. At one point I was up to 12mg of Coumadin/day and the side effects were horrendous. I did a ton of research and took myself off much to their dismay. All I heard from docs and pharmacists was that I was going to die. 3 years later, with no blood clots, nobody bugs me anymore.

    Of the myriad of docs I've had to see the last year, one has paid attention and tried to learn from what I'm telling him about my supplements. I figure that's a start considering he is an infectious disease specialist, Assistant Medical Director of the VA and medical school, Chief of Education and a professor. He subspecializes in CFIDS and VA recently started a Chronic Fatigue clinic which is how I met him. So he is a great person to be interested in what I've learned, lol.

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    Default Re: Boehringer wins first US OK in blood-thinner race

    Doesn't it feel wonderful to have a qualified professional take you seriously? I mean I dunno, it rarely happens, but it must feel great!

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    Veteran Member mellowsong's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boehringer wins first US OK in blood-thinner race

    Quote Originally Posted by Islander
    Doesn't it feel wonderful to have a qualified professional take you seriously? I mean I dunno, it rarely happens, but it must feel great!
    Yep, it is...gives me hope and a light in the darkness of allopathy

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    Default Re: Boehringer wins first US OK in blood-thinner race

    Quote Originally Posted by mellowsong
    However, the OTC kinases are safe, even in high doses. I replaced coumadin with nattokinase 3 years ago (have a genetic clotting disorder and had spontaneous multiple bilateral pulmonary emboli in 1998). I can eat whatever I want, no blood tests required .
    Mellow,
    You don't have to watch your INR numbers with kinases?

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    Veteran Member Reesacat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boehringer wins first US OK in blood-thinner race

    Quote Originally Posted by Samurai
    Mellow,
    You don't have to watch your INR numbers with kinases?
    I think the INR measures different clotting factors (like the ones the drug Coumadin affects) than what the nattokinase affects, which is fibrinogen. LabDoc and Mellow would know more.

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